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This episode is an advanced look at how Exchange Traded Funds, or ETFs. We talk with fund manager, Dr. Wesley Gray, about some of the unknown secrets in the finance industry.
Playlists that Snippet of We Study Billionaires Episode 48: Investing in ETFs with Dr. Wesley Gray appears on.
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This episode is an advanced look at how Exchange Traded Funds, or ETFs. We talk with fund manager, Dr. Wesley Gray, about some of the unknown secrets in the finance industry.
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Well, one of the reasons why I really like to to talk about the CFC is because to me, they're much more efficient that mutual funds, which is, um, I guess there's still more popular. But in the past, that is basically what people have not been picking individual stocks that have been buying so between mutual funds. But there are some that off costs, a lot of processes involved with the mutual fund. Um, not only do they have Thio record was buying it clearly also has to buy has to sell it if the investor doesn't want to to invest in the mutual fund anymore. That needs E mean there's new transactions that has to be done now the whole structure for it. Cf is a bit different, and I think that's also one also won. The reason why it's not as costly for the investor toe to invest in utf um could you perhaps explains the mechanism behind its EPS and why it might be more efficient. Sure, I mean, that pretty much is why we got in the TF business. So, um, there's really kind of three primary benefits of an E T. F and this will explain a lot about why, at the face of e t f seem like the best thing since sliced bread and yet all the £800 gorillas, a lot of them are not doing e t. F, which you would think like, Well, wait a second. This is client friendly. It's better for the consumer. What's going on here? Eso The biggest reason for us, at least, is taxes. Eso were out there managing money and manage accounts. Do whatever we can with on the tax engineering front. We start learn about the whole E T F structure and were like, Holy cow! This is a eureka moment because we're an active investor, which means we trade those securities in and out not all the time, but sometimes. And you know that is going to generate a huge performance fee from Uncle Sam. The more we can pump that out into the future. As Warren Buffett kind of showed, you know, the magic of deferred tax com pounding is is pretty incredible. Eso we we basically said, Hey, this CTF structure From a tax standpoint, we're allowed to essentially do activity in the fund, but punt the capital gains out to the future and not have to distribute them on a 10 99. That's incredible. So that was benefit. One benefit to is there, you know, again going back to your discussion about mutual funds. There. You, a mutual fund complex, usually has to keep you know, let's say 12 maybe 3% cash on hand because you need to have a liquidity buffer in case some clients says, Oh, give me my money back. You don't feel like blowing out your portfolio. And why is that bad? Well, now I'm paying some idiot, you know, Ah, Fi on 2 to 3% of cash. He's not deploying the money. He's not actually doing anything on it. Um, and it's just it's an externality problem where even it's trying to help the other investors. But meanwhile, it's screwing the investors inside the fund. Where is Anita? If you don't have to do that, you can buy and sell in the secondary market or for us. If you want to trade in big size and go through the primary market, you deliver us in kind shares and we deliver you out kind share, so there's no cash involved. There's no issues for the fund investors. It's a much cleaner design. And then the third one, which is the biggest reason why we think e. T. F s or a massive disruptor in the in the fund management space is the way sales work. So going back to your point there about the convoluted way that one has toe get into a mutual fund and get out of a mutual fund, it all works through what they call a transfer agent system. So, for example, if I'm a sales guy and I say, Hey, Presson dude, I got the greatest, you know, cake on the planet. You should buy this thing and you say, You know what? I'm gonna buy this this mutual fund and let's say it. Stig's mutual fund Preston is gonna go for two. Stig, fill out the paperwork, you know, put 10-K and Stig's mutual fund. Guess what I'm going to then, Dio I'm gonna go to stick and say stick. Hey, go on your transfer agent files and there's this guy named Preston who gave you 10-K. Give me my cut, you know, give me my trailer. They call or give me my fee or give me my kickback. That the whole mutual fund complex is based on that ability to cleanly and transparently intermediate, which means cells, guys and distribution guys are way more important to the process. Now let's look at an E T F and e T F transpiration file consist of what they call authorized participants or the people we trade with, as which your bank. So the people I know who buy and sell our e t f r. You know, people like Deutsche Bank No more JP Morgan Goldman Sachs, etcetera. I wonder if pressed wanted by my e t f. I have no way of knowing that unless he literally gives me a screenshot of like his, you know, e trade account or something. Um, which means if I no longer have a way to basically pay people, it lends its e. T. F structures lend themselves to one of two things one revolutionized cells culture. It's got to be now become a commune salary based salesforce that you just get paid to, like, you know, sell the product. But we can't pay to play because we don't know if you sold a billion dollars or million dollars s. That's one thing or two. This intermediate go direct consumer. So, like you guys, right? Blog's and podcasts and really good content, you kind of own the client mindshare. That's one way you could indirectly, you know, get sales without having to deal with, like a massive salesforce, salesforce or and we do a similar model. So bottom line is the entire industry and most £800 gorillas an active management or not, investment shops, their cells, intermediation shops. They don't add value. They sell stuff. The minute you take that out of the equation, they're going to sit back and be like Wait a second. Our whole business models destroyed this whole e t f thing way. Need to figure out what's going on here. So So I think that's what pretty much explains a lot of the dynamic and industry right now. That was fantastic. And you know what? If you call any of these major companies and they're trying to push a mutual fund and they're telling you, Oh, yeah, the market could go higher. Even though it's August of 2015, you know, it's like you describe that in great detail, and I think that it illuminates a lot that's kind of hidden behind the curtain for a lot of people. They don't really see that side of, of basically the affiliate marketing side of, uh of investing just real quick to emphasize that point because a lot of people don't see it, But we get hit up by people all the time. They wanna figure out how to quote unquote monetize us because we're a great sale because we got all these PhDs and all these great things and they walk in the door and they're like they don't even know about the e t F structure. Really? How and why it works and are like, Wait a second. So what you're telling is we can't get paid and I'm like, Yeah, you can't get paid. So get the hell out of my office. Um, and the more people understand that financial services, they're all about the middle man and all about distribution. The more they learn how ski easy this industry is, and the more they want to go towards, you know, disintermediation solution. So I just want to emphasize that point. Here's an idea. You actually have to create the asset to make money. Yeah. Yeah, You got a great value. You can't just be like some, like huckster in the middle. Um, yeah, yeah. How about that for a business model?
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