this happens this week, she gets arrested for multiple crimes, so the allegations are wire fraud, conspiracy to commit wire fraud and money laundering. Basically, what she was doing was working in this multi leveled, multilayered scheme. They call it the business opportunity scheme and the thing, which involves collecting and creating and selling lead list anyway. Yeah, well, it's like when you start a company and you want to kind of hit the ground running with your company, you can buy a lead list. And I was Googling this. And a lot of people have problems with lead list because they can be unreliable. They're really, really by a list of people's names and numbers, essentially right, contact information and information about them. Yeah, names and numbers, email addresses, all their demographics. And then you have this sort of like set group of people who are probably likely to respond to whatever your company is right. Suckers is what you're saying. Suckers, suckers. And so she's developing these lists and also selling these lists. She's making money on the selling of these lists, which the best of my knowledge are really expensive, like if you're starting a company and you want to buy a lead list, depending on the quality of the list, you could be paying a ton of money, right, and it could be risky. And apparently there could be legal complications with even buying lead lists. I was reading about this. It was like Beware of buying lead lists. And so she was not only allegedly selling these lead lists and creating these lead lists, she was working with the people who bought them so that they would be using those lead lists to target these older people. Susceptible people with business schemes that were non existent and the old people would pay them a ton of money. And then Gensia would allegedly get a cut of that. I think I'm doing a pretty good job explaining what this is, but that's the wire fraud, which is, as our friend Amina says, that's her favorite. It's your favorite crime, because that's always what they get rich people on. That's the easiest crime to get people on because it involves receipts. It's like, Is there documentation of X y Z happening? Yes, it's wire fraud. Yes, and it says Shaw and Smith, her assistant, who was on the show. Okay, this guy was on the show, and I was like, Oh, yeah, this is my assistant. They induced and caused victims, many of whom were over the age of 55 to pay thousands of dollars to obtain so called coaching and business services. Again, that's vague, I think, by design, which they represented would make the management of the victims purported online businesses more efficient and profitable when, in actuality, the services would provide little or no value to the victims businesses, which were essentially non existent. It's just crazy to me because it's like one of the questions you could ask most when you're a housewife is how are you rich like, How did you make your money, like, where's the money from or whatever? Because people are genuinely curious, like what type of review our or like we invented this or our business is this, like each housewife has like their own kind of origin story of wealth, whether it be not a restaurant. Usually it's like my ex husband, who I am not with any more where my current husband inheritance, right? It's a question you're asked a lot, and so for this person to be like, literally doing fraud. But having to ask questions multiple times a lot. A lot of times for how do you make your money? And I'm going to explain it in a very vague, weird way. Is so stupid. It's so it's like asking for it like it's unbelievable. That's where this clip that has been making the rounds comes in. Because on the reunion special for Real Housewives of Salt Lake City, Andy Cohen was asking all these viewer questions. And most of them are like, Wait, Jen, how are you, this rich? Wait, Then why do you have multiple assistance? We've never understood what you do. And yet you have so much money, right? She has this, like Shah chalet right in Aspen or something. That everything she does is flaunting money, which is a very housewives thing. And this is what she said to Andy. How did you get so rich? My background is in direct response marketing for about 20 years, So our company does advertising. We have a platform that helps people acquire customers. So when you're shopping online or on the Internet and something pops, we have the algorithm behind. Why you're getting served that ad. So she's explaining part of what the fraud is, which is fascinating. She's literally explaining the fraud because she's explaining what lead lists are. Well, do you think that she didn't think it was illegal or at least part of it wasn't illegal? And then it got illegal. I was watching a lot of clips and interviews with other lawyers who were explaining this and one lawyer, which was the most helpful thing that I saw. A lawyer was explaining that her best defense is to claim that she didn't understand what she was doing was fraud, that she believed that she was actually helping them. The fact that she's vaguely explaining wrongly explaining lead lists on a TV show is crazy to me. It reminded me of the documentary Both of us watched recently Major look about the art fraud, the allegations of art fraud, where the where the woman's defense was. I always believed they were real and that's been her soul defense ever since this was brought up and I kind of feel like that's what Jen shows. But I do feel like in this situation there might be actual documentation that proves that she knew it wasn't real. The thing with Ann Friedman and that made you look as they could not find any. They could not find any written documentation that that proved that and was like, I know this is fake She never, ever put that in writing. Maybe she said, it may be, you know, they just couldn't. I think this feels more likely that there is either her or her assistant wrote something, said something implied something to one of the many people they sold these lists to, that what they were doing was bad.