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Episode 107 of 132

[Special Episode] The Mindstate Marketing Hour #25 with Will Leach - The ROI Online Podcast Ep. 107

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The ROI Online Podcast
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Duration: 39:20
In this weekly episode* of the Mindstate Marketing Hour, host Steve Brown of ROI Online, interviews Will Leach, author of Marketing to Mindstates, founder of Triggerpoint, and CEO of the Mindstate Group on why focusing on customers emotions and mindstates is key to successful marketing.*Originally p
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In this weekly episode* of the Mindstate Marketing Hour, host Steve Brown of ROI Online, interviews Will Leach, author of Marketing to Mindstates, founder of Triggerpoint, and CEO of the Mindstate Group on why focusing on customers emotions and mindstates is key to successful marketing.*Originally produced as a Livestream videoMindstate Group free resources: https://www.mindstategroup.com/resourcesInterested in getting more Marketing to Mindstates content?Read Will's book: Marketing to MindstatesCheck out their website: https://www.mindstategroup.com/Follow Will on LinkedIn, Twitter, FacebookNeed real resources that will help you grow your business? Grab your FREE business growth stack resources here!https://thegoldentoilet.com/resourcesThinking of starting your own podcast? Buzzsprout’s secure and reliable posting allows you to publish podcasts online. Buzzsprout also includes full iTunes support, HTML5 players, show statistics, and WordPress plugins. Get started using this link to receive a $20 Amazon gift card and to help support our show!Support the show (https://cash.app/$stevemfbrown)
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some of the brands that you've worked with. Which ones have you really nailed it on this and which one? Maybe tell us a story where, Yeah, you didn't. I got one that where we nailed it. I didn't expect us. I can't go to the actual brand name, but it was a line. It was a wine manufacturer, and we did it. We did some work with millennials who are trying to enter into the wine category. Whether you know, if you can remember this back then, when you first start getting into the wine, you're you're really confused. You know, there are wines, there's red versus whites, and then there's different types of reds and whites. And then there's different regions that you should be looking at. And then there's backstories. And so there's a lot of, like anxiousness around wine, especially when younger people are going to parties and they want to have a great bottle of wine. But always, like is a $50 bottle of wine good or is a $35 bottle of wine Good is $9. Good. We have no idea. The only way you can figure out whether you're making a good wine or buying a good wine is from price, which is a really bad indicator of the quality wine, by the way. Guys like it's horrible, but that's the only mechanism we know. We did some research and we found out that really, the desire for buying an expensive wine was certainly we want to make sure that, you know, we're bringing it to a party so that they can enjoy the lines. Do you think you think that the motivation called engagement would be the biggest point? It wasn't. It was. Esteem was the largest motivating driver for younger people as they bought wine. Why it was because they wanted to be able to go into a party and be recognized that they bought a great wine. It was It was this idea that when they go and they give a bottle of wine that the hostess or the host says, Oh my gosh, this is amazing. Now what's funny about that is that we started asking younger, they were millennials. In fact, if they were younger than millennials from those parts, and we even asked them, Well, how do you how do you gain that esteem? and they said, Well, it's not just handing the bottle of wine because a lot of times the host or hostess has no idea whether it's a good bottle of wine or not doing the back story. So what we did was we worked with this winery to create very small back stories that would be on the the on a label, like a not a sticker, but kind of like a little card that comes with a bottle of wine. It will tell you a small back story about the wine, the vineyard. That way, when the millennial or when the younger you know, the buyer could read it, they could take that off and they could go to the party knowing something kind of special about the winemaker or the region that allowed for them as they gave that bottle of wine to the host or hostess of the party, that they could just say something small about it. And they would be recognized, as they really know a lot about wine again, making them feel special at a party where otherwise they may not really feel like they fit in. That's a neat example of using a steam by providing a small little clue behind the scenes. Allow these younger wine buyers to feel like they really knew something about wine. And they made him a little bit special. Yeah, I'm relating. I'm thinking about the times that you accidentally brought something that everybody really couldn't believe or didn't know about. Remember how it made you feel Great idea to give a little back story so that you could brush up, throw it away, do the presentation, get all the credit exactly like you're a wine connoisseur. Whether you know, you didn't know anything about wine until 15 minutes before you got to the party, right? But yeah, so little small little card was everything we needed. It was it was a nice way of driving sales by helping, you know, younger wine buyers know a little something that nobody else knew. Make them feel a little more confident in why they bought that wine versus I don't know. It's $50. And that felt like the price point for this dinner part
so, Number five, we want to help them showcase themselves as having a higher status than their peers. So I'm just trying to think of some good examples of what I've experienced and, you know, other than other than that airline thinks and you've got one. So what happened while you were down as spring break? Showing your ball need caps there? What? What happened? That was a good example of this. That's right. I I will tell you one that comes to mind very easily. Um, So, have you ever gone to the coffee shop? We had a coffee shop downstairs in the in the hotel in the resort and this little Starbucks and a couple of guys like me had to do like to do a little work every day, right? Uh, and the classic one I'm sure you've seen it, too. Is the guy or the girl with the apple computer that when they open up the apple computer, there's the logo of apple right now. What's so funny about that is that logo is not meant for the user of the apple, right of the computer. It's for everybody to else to know in the coffee shop that they have the apple logo. Not only is it big, but it actually glows a little bit, and it's transposed in a way that is showcasing status. I have an Apple computer to others, right? Same thing happens with, um, with luxury brands. Louis Vuitton, like there is a very specific logo and pattern for Louis Vuitton, right? And that is a way of making sure that other people around you know that you have higher status, you need an artifact. And that's what I mean by whether it's your brand logo. A lot of people think of statuses from the brand logos you need the artifact you like from Tiffany's. You need the light blue box. You know, for Louis Vuitton, you need to have the L Navy with that very unique pattern for Apple. You have to be able to see the apple logo on, you know, kind of lit up their status in that, um, and that's why they're doing that. So I think you've got to create an artifact, and I was reading this book not too long ago that talks about this idea of what could you put on your T shirt if you're gonna give all your customers a T shirt? What would that word be? What would that symbol B And when you own that symbol when you feel like you could walk down, you know, down kind of a dock or whatever, since we're talking about the beach and people would go like Oh my gosh, like I identify with that, that's when you know you have status. And that's when you know that your brand can provide some moments of status and self esteem. So we do it with our R O I T shirts, the arrow at the arrow and everything we send it to our clients. Often times we see pictures of them wearing it in different places. So it's That's a way that your logo or your your name can help them, um, help them achieve this. Yeah, most iconic brands in the world have found a way of doing this of creating a level of status or esteem building quality. So the best brands in the world now again a lot of more focused a lot of luxury, but doesn't have to be like I said, social media have nothing to luxury but social media brands. Can you place people, especially when they allow people to, you know, showcase how many friends they have or how many comments they have and things like that showcase esteem, and they showcase your ability to stand out from others. So it's really, really important to do to understand that your customers want to feel special, and the way you to do that is to focus on giving them status. But remember, it's two things going on. One is they have to know that they are special from others, so you must showcase that status in relation to others. And the second thing you must do as a as a brand is let you, as a company, do the showcasing for them So you don't have your customers doing constant humble brags because humble brags get old and people know that they're they're they're fake. And so how can you brag on your customers a little bit more when you do that when you are bragging on your customers and showing your customers that they are special versus other people, then you're going to help them create great recognition. They're gonna feel special, and you're gonna grow your sales
Yeah, we all want to be the same. We all want to be included and figure out where we fit with folks that we feel safe with. But we want to be a little bit unique and different, too. So we all want to be the same, but different. That's right. That's right. So number four, how can we help them to find ways to increase others attention towards themselves? Yes, here is where you need to help your customers avoid the humble brag. So the humble brag right is when you post something or you bring attention to yourself and the way you get around that tension of are you that kind of guy who is going to make sure that everybody notices you? You do. The humble brag as a humble brag is where you post yourself on a beach with a pina colada and you say I'm so blessed that this opportunity came my way. So you do the humble brag. You always show those perfect moments. That's hopefully you know, telling others that you know, you're you're getting some great status or exclusive treatments. You know whether it's a massage or it's the pina colada without bringing attention yourself. So what do you do? You humble brag you thank God. Or you think, um, you can't believe that you are selected right? So help your customers avoid the humble brag because humble brags work. I totally get it. I humble brag or my wife humble brags for me when I when I launch marketing mind states. But if that's all you do or if you you all have friends out there, I have a friend out there that it's a constant, humble brag. Eventually, I just kind of unfriended. It's like I know her behind behind the scenes and her life isn't that great And I unfriend because I knew it was so fake. Your customers don't want to feel fake. So what you have to do is do the humble brag for them, right? Don't let them do the humble brag for themselves. How do you do it? So how do you promote them? That's what scribed it for me. So I remember you know, the the publisher of the book. They came out the next morning and said, Hey, you know, best selling author, you know, congratulated me. That allowed for me to just like to say thanks. I could have done it without you to get that humble brag off my chest without me having to say, I can't believe I'm the best selling author, right? So describe created the mechanism where I could feel esteem without me showing that I needed a seem. So that's what you have to figure out. How do you recognize people with elite status? Airlines do it very easily. They allow people with status to go first. If you're in first class, they give you a drink immediately, or they at least ask you for a drink immediately. They show they allow you to sit in first class, and I've only been upgraded a few times. But when you do get upgraded, you have, you know, your your beer or whatever, and you don't really look, you ever done this state where you don't really look at the people walking and you know, you kind of look away, but you have to hold the glass of Did you feel special? I'm not ashamed of that. You feel kind of special, but but but But they allow you write. The airline allows you as the first class customer to feel that sense of entitlement without you having to say, Look at me, Look at me. I I deserve this. And so I think companies have to figure out a way to do the showcasing for their customers on their customers' behalf. Um, and like I said, that could be something as simple as a retweet or like write something simple that somebody can on your behalf, like something that you said or some kind of a mechanism where you can showcase that. You, um you you you're getting status. That's really what you want to try to do is focus on that.
you must help people measure themselves versus those that don't have status. Because you don't know if you have status unless you know about those people that don't have status and what their experiences. So you have to help them measure themselves, even if that means you have to set a lower bar or maybe set up some smaller expectations for them. So this idea here is that, you know, I used to talk about this to my students all time Is that you can't judge anything without a without two items, right? So I don't know if I'm tall unless I know what I'm being compared to. I don't know if I make a lot of money unless I get I'm compared to what I'm. Unless I know what I'm being compared to. Same thing with status. Same things with esteem. You must offer and show people what the experience is like without status. So let's go back to the the airline example. Right. So you can when you're looking up for airfare, you can look at first class and you can see all the things that you get with your first class flight and you can see what you don't get with first class, and so even when you're waiting in line, you see the people that come out. They have status. They have diamond status or platinum, gold or platinum status and gold status. You are now able to show, you know, if you don't have that kind of status, you get to see what has what happens when you have that status. You get to board the airline quicker or the airplane quicker. You get to put your bags up faster, those types of things. So how can you, as a company, not just talk about how your elite and you give people this elite status, but that that elite, that elite status it's compared to something else? So always think through. You have to show the two options or nobody really understands how to gain. That's what that status really means, even if that means you got to set a lower bar. If you have to take something that normally you would give to, everybody just removed one or two benefits just so you can show the difference between those with status and those without status than do it, because if your people, or if your customers are driven by status and self esteem. They need to know that they are getting something special, which makes them feel special. Do you think that this is so important and powerful? Because, as as humans, that are number one imperative is survival and that when we were able to compare that we're in a we're in a we're putting, placing ourselves in an area where survival is less in question. When you get these extra perks, is that where do you think that's where that's coming from? It could. It could be, I think, if you if you read all the evolutionary psychology, I think that's where you would get some of that. Um, I think the other part of it is that as and I think it's a little part of evolutionary psychology, but we have so many people who say the same things that look the same as much as much as we as we feel like there's a lot of diversity, there's really not as much diversity as you think. There are so many people that look like you that act like you that sound like you, um and so I think it's a way of just being able to separate from the crowd. I was talking to students last week and they were asking the advice. I I do these sessions with students quite often, and I said that you have to figure out a way to find your thing and I always say about your thing. I So they asked me, What is your thing? I said, Well, the problem right now is guys. Every NBA goes to the same programs. They learn the same case studies, they take the same classes, they have the same resumes and they almost all have an internship these days. So if you think those things are going to differentiate yourself, they're not. And I said, the only way you're gonna be able to get a job is if you stand for that one thing that is unique to you and I think it's in that space of recognizing that around you. We all are kind of the same. We really are, and there's so many more people. There's so many more people and the ideas that you know used to differentiate ourselves no longer really all that differentiating. I think there's something to this idea of status allows you to be singled out from others. Which helps you from an evolutionary psychology perspective. Helps you a lot. Um, from an evolutionary perspective, right? You being singled out helps you that status hopefully saves your life back. You know, a long, long time ago, but certainly help save your psychology and your your mind now to make you feel like you're slightly different than others.
so part of this idea of giving people status is to help them affirm that their status that they have status by accessing your brand or your services. So there are two things you have to do for somebody to feel as if you're providing them status. The first thing is, you must have them earn. You know that status in some way now, earning that status could be money, right? I'm paying you more. Therefore, I get access to status. That's why you know, like you said, you you paid more money to get to the, uh you know, maybe you didn't pay, But you can pay more money for the restaurant, right? To go and talk to a chef and see how orders are are done and see me aren't behind being a chef. So you have to provide either money or have your customers provide money to gain that access or some amount of effort. And so the big thing right now which is important, is make it slightly difficult to get that status. And the thing that comes into my mind right now is clubhouse. The new app that's just taking the social media industry by storm, and you know what I love about what they did, and I don't know if it was deliberate or not. But frankly, there is a social badge. There's status associated with being in clubhouse. So for those of you don't know much about, clubhouse is first. It is a new social media app that you must be invited to. You just can't sign up to the clubhouse. Somebody on clubhouse must ask you to be a part of clubhouse. They have to give you the rights, the permission to get there now. The developers did this by their admission. I wonder how how true this is is that it was a way of ramping up. It's a way of scaling slowly, but in that it gives you some status when you are one of the worthy people to gain access to clubhouse. Now, all of a sudden you're in this small club, and that's a really important thing that provides status to when you want to create a clubhouse channel or you want people to attend one of your one of your sessions that you're in this elite group. The second thing they make it difficult is, and I don't think this is probably what they want to do, but they're benefiting from. It is it's only available on IOS right now. You can't get it on on an android device. So what does that do? It allows. It pushes people to go to one device. Now they say they're going to offer and I fully believe they would, Right? They're gonna offer it. But just by that, they limited the numbers of people that can access clubhouse to only those people with a very specific operating system. It's really smart way of creating some status and ultimately increasing. You know somebody's esteem when they get access to hosting their own clubhouse clubhouse room, well, you think about it. That reduces a lot of glitches that they would run into trying to open up on two operating systems at the same time. But it creates an exclusivity where people that self identify with the Apple brand are going. Oh, this is another reason that choosing apple over android serves us. I agree. I agree with that. Number three Number three. You must help people measure themselves versus those that don't have status because you don't know if you have status unless you know about those people that don't have status and what their experiences
our customers are clients. We want to give them a unique and special benefits, not open to most. What does that mean? Well, that's right. So, have you ever been upgraded to first class on an airline? That is this idea that there is some unique special benefit that are not available to everybody. So you know that when you go to first class, you get to get in the line first, um, you get to maybe have a pre drink of some kind before before you take off. So there's certain things that you can do. And those things are gonna be unique to your business in your category that you can make somebody feel unique and special. Um, so some of the things that come to mind right are you know, how can you provide somebody with, like, behind the scenes access? So there's lots of companies out there that say, Hey, we're going to give you access to some of the behind the scenes work or things that happen behind the closed doors. So that's a way of providing a special benefit that's not available to others or the other one that's very new is Hey, you're going to get access to my course or access to my video or access to my whatever new product two days before it's officially released. Those types of things allow somebody who desires greater status to know that you were recognizing them as being somewhat special. So it doesn't have to be something like offering a luxury product. I think some people think like, Well, I'm not. I'm just not an esteemed type of brand because I'm not a luxury product. I'm not Prada, I'm not. I'm not offering first class airline figures, but it doesn't have to be just even be something as simple as behind the scenes access that can help somebody build a little bit of their self esteem. I like that just to think how, how special you feel when someone I remember buddy he he opened up a restaurant. He was really busy, but it's like when I came in, he offered to show the kitchen and some of those things, and I'm like you kind of felt special right when you're just just as much as nobody as everybody else in there, but they let you walk through and see behind the scenes going on. It was really cool. I love that example. I know that they're fine. Fine dining. Um, you know, they have the chef's table. Um, and she smells like us. We don't get me there very often, right? I do know that that's a really big deal where you get to actually sit behind in a special area and then you can watch the chef. And of course, we'll come over and talk to a little bit. But that's a That's a really interesting experience. And of course, you want to showcase out on social media and things like that, you know? So I love this idea of expanding our thoughts of a steam away from just luxury brands, but to even just small little peeks behind the corner of what really happened behind the scenes, it's really, really important. And frankly, Social Media does that all the time, right? I often describe Esteem, um, as the power behind social media. Now I get that people want to have their soapbox and use different social media channels to get, uh, you know, to have the ability to take their message out to the masses, and it's a big deal. It's important, but underlying that is so that their message can be recognized as being special. That's why the soapbox works, that other people can not only access that information, but then they can tell you how great you're doing. That's why Retweets are so important. That's why likes are so important. Without those things. I don't think social Media would be a third of the size it is right now. It's because it allows people to get a little boost of confidence. And yet somebody recognizes me and they think what I said was pretty special. You know, I think about the out takes at the end of movies, offer you that feeling right where you giggle when you see them mess up like this morning. If you would have been giggling about, I didn't send you the link and then I'm going. Words will. But then he was on vacation, so I was. Maybe I misunderstood. It would have been comical to see me see me like messing up this morning. That's why we had a cold, cold start. We didn't get to do any squats or anything. That's right. That's right. Number
So today's topic is five psychological ways to make customers feel admired. Why is this important? Will you, guys? Because there is a desire. At some point it happens a lot more than you think that we just want to be kind of. We want to stand out a little bit from the crowd. We desire status, Um, and through the recognition of others that we establish that status by seeing that we're a slightly different, slightly elevated than otherwise we would be. So it's important to know that some of your customers right now I want you to help them gain a little bit of status, and by doing that, it makes them feel more important. And, you know, the whole thing on the Steve is it's not bad. Like I I think that, you know, when I wrote in the word esteem. So Esteem is truly a psychological motivation. Right? Is the desire to feel approval, respect and admired by others. But I think there's just, like, weird feeling of Oh, I'm not driven by esteem, you know? Uh, those people, they need more self esteem. It has this kind of connotation that it's bad, but it's one of the nine core motivations. It drives lots of people, including myself. In some cases, um, so we've got to stop, think about this tension, or we have to acknowledge that there's a tension between this desire to feel like somebody's bragging on us a little bit versus, you know, versus having being that guy. That kind of has to show off, and there's a nice tension there. But that tension is important for you to understand as a as a client, I'm sorry as a business, because when you can balance that fine line by allowing somebody to brag a little bit on themselves, they are going to love you for it. Yeah, You think about the Times where you kind of felt recognized or acknowledged that someone understood your value or how it made you feel. And it it was maybe a little unexpected that that you didn't expect it, But someone kind of calls calls you out in a good way. Remember how that glow you felt? Or maybe you're a little embarrassed, but deep down it's like we really do desire it, but often we feel ourselves needing to somehow package it and presented and not depend on others to do that, and that's where this balance total. That's right. I totally agree. I think I think the power is when somebody can help you do it so they can brag on you because if you brag on yourself, certainly it's okay for a while. But if you do it too often because you really desire that, it can come across as being self serving. So I re I'll recently you may have had the same issue Steve with your book, But I'm very open to telling you that sometimes I desire greater esteem just like anybody. My son definitely loves the limelight of being on stage. I think he's taken that a little bit for me. So when I published the book Marketing to Mind States, um, it became a bestseller in six categories, which was totally not expected. I'm very, very humble with that. I did not expect that. I thought maybe one category it was going to be in, like, geriatric or some some weird off category nobody cares about. So that night I remember my phone is blowing up, so it launched during the day, and the publisher said, don't look at emails don't look anything. Enjoy This day you only get to publish your first book one time. So just enjoy the day and I'll let you know tomorrow morning how it's going, how it's going, like that's awesome. So I didn't go to Amazon, didn't look anything and my phone starts blowing up. And I remember, you know, I was at this party about the house. My wife had a little get together, which again is as a signal of esteem because she threw a party for me and we had people over to you recognize this fact? And I looked at everyone left around nine o'clock and I looked at the phone and, um, you know, my editor said you had an oh shit kind of day today, and I'm like, Wow, and I didn't know what that meant, But it was good. It was explanation, like, Wow. And I told Melanie, and I remember this desire that I wanted to tell other people like I put significant effort into that book is 13 months of writing in arguably nine years of research, and I wanted to say something to people, but I can't say that I didn't feel I don't feel comfortable saying it's what I do. I asked my wife to do it for me. It's embarrassing that play. So I said so. She has always followers on Facebook. I was like, Tell people here here's six categories you know And I made her do it made her do it. That's not everything. But I asked her to do it, and that was She could tell people that I could say, Oh, thank you so much. It was totally unexpected. But that gave me the ability to feel esteem without being seen as the guy who needs to build their self esteem. So you know I'm not. I'm not ashamed of saying that I needed that. It was perfect at the moment because I it just helped me actualize that moment. And so I think that's the tension and we're going to talk a little about you as a company. How do you think about taking on that tension a little bit like your customers don't have to showcase themselves because there's a lot of people out there like you and I who feel a little bit uneasy with the limelight. But boy, when somebody gives it to us were easily We could be humble about it, right? Right. And we're okay with, like, messing up in front of people because we're just used to it. And and we're just two guys with legs that are a little bit embarrassing on the beach.
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