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Episode 92 of 132

[Special Episode] The Mindstate Marketing Hour #20 with Will Leach - The ROI Online Podcast Ep. 92

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The ROI Online Podcast
Duration: 47:05
In this weekly episode* of the Mindstate Marketing Hour, host Steve Brown of ROI Online, interviews Will Leach, author of Marketing to Mindstates, founder of Triggerpoint, and CEO of the Mindstate Group on why focusing on customers emotions and mindstates is key to successful marketing.*Originally p
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In this weekly episode* of the Mindstate Marketing Hour, host Steve Brown of ROI Online, interviews Will Leach, author of Marketing to Mindstates, founder of Triggerpoint, and CEO of the Mindstate Group on why focusing on customers emotions and mindstates is key to successful marketing.*Originally produced as a Livestream videoMindstate Group free resources: https://www.mindstategroup.com/resourcesInterested in getting more Marketing to Mindstates content?Read Will's book: Marketing to MindstatesCheck out their website: https://www.mindstategroup.com/Follow Will on LinkedIn, Twitter, FacebookNeed real resources that will help you grow your business? Grab your FREE business growth stack resources here!https://thegoldentoilet.com/resourcesThinking of starting your own podcast? Buzzsprout’s secure and reliable posting allows you to publish podcasts online. Buzzsprout also includes full iTunes support, HTML5 players, show statistics, and WordPress plugins. Get started using this link to receive a $20 Amazon gift card and to help support our show!Support the show (https://cash.app/$stevemfbrown)
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Wow, You know what you're talking? I was thinking, how cool would it be if he had proposal documentation? That one is the optimum, it optimistic, eager version. And one is the cautious and reserved version. What would that look like? When would the optimistic, eager version of proposal paperwork looks like? Yep. So the first thing I would do in that paperwork is talk about how we are going to build it together. Like I would come back with the exact answer. If somebody is eager and optimistic, they oftentimes are looking to co build. They want to take the best ideas from everybody. So I would be less specific about the process. I will take you from a to B and and talk about Yeah, there's a process, but we're gonna work together to modify it for you, Somebody who is more cautious and reserved. Steve is less open to this idea of ambiguity. Right? There's more cautious. So they're gonna be more likely to say I want to know how Step one gets me to step two. Step three, step four. And of course, they have a chance to modify. But I would not talk a lot about us building it together. Having a system in place will help somebody who feels a little more cautious, feel more comfortable with you. Um, the second thing I would do if I was an optimistic is I would talk about the vision first. Like here is the ultimate vision. I think working with me and us together will get us to, and I would be focused on that optimal vision of the future where if I was cautious, I would quickly talk about that. But I would start. Let's give us a five year and five years I'm going to grow your business. 20 x. I would, I would say, in five years, 20 X. But now let's talk about year one because somebody who's cautious wants to know him getting the details and doesn't want to think so much about five years out, they want to know within the first year. So I would be thinking about more or less if I was optimistic and trying to talk to that person very focused on the ultimate vision of us working together in the end result. Wherever that end result is whether it's six months now or six years from now. And, um, the last thing I think I would do on a proposal is I would give different options and then a different alternatives to working with me again. Some of these optimistic and eager they want to put their skin in the game. They're gonna want to be there more open to new ideas. They want to build things together. So you can't be so rich and say this is the only process you could say Here's a recommended process, but we have options for people like you who blank, blank blank. So I think in my proposals, I would let them very much. I kind of feel that they are also a little bit and control this. We're gonna be doing this together. I can bring my best ideas out to get us to a great place. The other side, the cautious reserved. I'd be less open to that. I would be saying we have three options. Here are the three options, um, A, B and C, and it's okay to recommend maybe an option. But I don't think I'd give them this customization idea. I wouldn't be focused as much on that. So like I said. I don't I don't know if it's, I think it's about emphasis. Team of you know are going to emphasize the big vision or or not emphasize it. Um, I think it's about where you place emphasis, and I can totally see a proposal being slightly different for one versus versus the other.
what are someone like that? It would seem obvious, but even I miss it sometimes. But if I'm talking to someone that's optimistic and eager and as a potential client, I'm more cautious and reserved. I struggle a little bit to connect with them, to be the optimistic and eager and over promised a little bit. Or, you know, I struggle in that area. So what are some of the signs that that we can look for? Because sometimes I see something that I don't trust My initial am. I just Is it too simple that he's on a stick and eager? What are some things I can look forward to confirm that. So first time I like where you went is you said that there's a gut feel or there's a There's There's something I think you should trust your gut feel now. I think what you have to do is be methodical in when you're talking, especially when you first get to know your client or or prospect to sit there and say, Is this person eager and optimistic or cautious and reserves? You should have that kind of just put it on A, you know, on a post it note and just take notes are kind of in your mind. Think about this. Your intuition is going to tell you. It really is. Now it may not be perfect. I'm not expecting. This person is only cautious. There's gonna be a different level, right? Or a balance, right? Some people are going to kind of show you both sides of them. But use your gut feel first because your gut feeling your intuition is the best signal of whether somebody is reserved or whether somebody is really open new ideas. Um, the second trick I've done, actually, Steve, is this especially on very early calls. Before we get to know each other, open yourself up, open yourself up a bit and talk about maybe a personal story or your personal life. Now, I think when you and I first met, I didn't do that initially, Um, it took a little bit of time, right. So let's say if you would have talked about hey, you know, my kid or whatever talked about where do you live? Tell me about that. Tell me about your life. Yeah, and I would have rejected that. Probably were not ready to do that right? You would have known if I would have tried to push the subject fast or did the arbitrary Well, I'm married with a child. I live in Dallas. If that's all I talked about, that would probably show you would be a very first signal of. He's a little bit more cautious. He's waiting to see whether I've earned that trust. I can open up about my my real life, so I think a really important thing to do if you are trying to struggle with that is ask or open up your own life, where you feel comfortable with with Steve and let's be comfortable for you and see if they take that bait and open themselves up if they open themselves up a little bit more about their life, especially if they use the first name of their family. You see, I talk about Melanie now and Nicholas. Do you know what we were talking? I'll tell you, I never did that, man. I never would have done that. I would've talked about my wife and my child. I wanted to give him first names, so it wasn't until I use first names. That's when you kind of know. Okay, we're starting to build this trust, and so he's moving away from being reserved, and he's more open to kind of, you know, I'm starting swinging a little bit more into the optimistic, eager, eager stage. So then a second thing I do so initial conversation to post it notes open myself up a little bit. Talk about my personal life, See if there's any reciprocity. The last thing that I can tell you to do before, just trust your gut feel, was how much evidence are they asking from you to prove that you should do business together again? It's the case study idea. Now, if this person is eager and you're eager as well and you guys are connecting, they're gonna be oftentimes less needy of. I need to have some references. I need to have a couple of case studies. Where can I learn more about you all that kind of stuff? They're gonna be less needing that now. If this person is more reserved, they're gonna ask for that stuff again. Not necessarily, because they're gonna read all of it. But it's the shit fact that you have people who will talk about your business in a positive life that you have references, that you have case studies of somebody like me that makes somebody a little more cautious in nature reserve feel like. Yep, you're kind of like me. You have these things ready to go when needed. So when they first start asking for that very first pitch or whatever, if they're asking for a lot of things, it's not perfect. Perfect in every case. But if they're asking for a lot of details, that's a signal that they're cautious. They're trying to feel whether or not you are worthy, I guess, of their business.
Yeah. So there's only gonna be two natural dispositions that everybody has in business, right? And the first one is, you know, in my book, we call it the optimistic. They're optimistic in nature. But these people are eager, right? So in business, imagine that person in business who is a little bit more eager with wanting to do business a little bit more open with their personal life. They are going to be more open to ambiguity. They like the excitement of the deal. So these people are just optimistic in nature, friendlier in nature, eager to get to the next place with you, etcetera. So when somebody has a natural disposition in this way, they love bigger ideas. They love for you to follow up with them and say, Hey, I got an idea. I want to run past you, right? Because ideas matter a lot with somebody who's in that optimistic, eager disposition in business. So that is the first one you have to kind of naturally know a little bit about. The second one is equally as important. There are other people. This is a little bit more like me who is a little bit more cautious in the book. We talk about being cautious and reserved when it comes to business. It doesn't matter about their personality. It's about when it comes to business. So this type of person is going to be asking more questions of you, especially when they first meet you. They're gonna want you to be more methodical with them. They don't like to have surprises. Maybe when you first were trying to pitch business, they're going to ask for a lot more case studies and give me more proof points in case studies and literature so I could feel more comfortable with you. For the most part, it's not because they're actively looking to read all that stuff. Steve. I don't think most people read all those case studies, but it's the sheer fact that you have case studies, that you have literature, that you have documents that look professional, um, and that are very kind of methodically built. It provides a sense of comfort for somebody who's a little bit more cautious and a little bit more reserved, so those are the two natural styles in business, and you need to identify which or maybe maybe it's where on the spectrum somebody is and try to match that
Yeah. So there's only gonna be two natural dispositions that everybody has in business, right? And the first one is, you know, in my book, we call it the optimistic. They're optimistic in nature. But these people are eager, right? So in business, imagine that person in business who is a little bit more eager with wanting to do business a little bit more open with their personal life. They are going to be more open to ambiguity. They like the excitement of the deal. So these people are just optimistic in nature, friendlier in nature, eager to get to the next place with you, etcetera. So when somebody has a natural disposition in this way, they love bigger ideas. They love for you to follow up with them and say, Hey, I got an idea. I want to run past you, right? Because ideas matter a lot with somebody who's in that optimistic, eager disposition in business. So that is the first one you have to kind of naturally know a little bit about. The second one is equally as important. There are other people. This is a little bit more like me who is a little bit more cautious in the book. We talk about being cautious and reserved when it comes to business. It doesn't matter about their personality. It's about when it comes to business. So this type of person is going to be asking more questions of you, especially when they first meet you. They're gonna want you to be more methodical with them. They don't like to have surprises. Maybe when you first were trying to pitch business, they're going to ask for a lot more case studies and give me more proof points in case studies and literature so I could feel more comfortable with you. For the most part, it's not because they're actively looking to read all that stuff. Steve. I don't think most people read all those case studies, but it's the sheer fact that you have case studies, that you have literature, that you have documents that look professional, um, and that are very kind of methodically built. It provides a sense of comfort for somebody who's a little bit more cautious and a little bit more reserved, so those are the two natural styles in business, and you need to identify which or maybe maybe it's where on the spectrum somebody is and try to match
So when you say I love this statement, your first in the agent of emotion help me connect What agent means in this? Yeah, that's the point. Here is that we like to think of ourselves, all of us in business and in life as kind of rational, thoughtful beings that are constantly in tune with what's important to us. What makes us tick. What are our beliefs? Um, and we're kind of always thinking through all of our decisions. But what if I told you that you make 35,000 decisions on any given day, like 35,000 over 6000 food decisions, research has shown are made by you every single day? I know that doesn't make any sense, but it's shown that it actually is true. When you think of yourself as trying to do cost benefit analysis of 600 or 6000 food decisions on a day you're not doing, that's what are you doing? You're using emotions to help you navigate the day. That's what I mean by being an agent of emotion. You are primarily being run and driven by your emotions, and then you post rationalize how you're feeling in the decision you made emotionally with some sort of evidence so that somebody was to question you, or if your conscious self wants to better understand why you made the decision, you have rational reasons to do that. That's why we say that marketing has to be emotional and rational. You have to have both. I think in most marketing and most marketing, you've got to have both.
mimicking. You know, it's it's this idea of matching your customers disposition. And I learned about this actually, years ago for the first time. Um, when I first started trigger point and the importance of doing this so I don't know if you know this, Steve, But when I first started turning point in year two, I decided I wanted to go agency side. What? That was not what a nightmare. I tried it. I tried it. And I was like, uh, not for me because, um, I found it. It's It's a It's a tough business on the agency side. Being consultant. I get to just talk about ideas, agency, guys. You guys have to do work. So But I went in that space and we had a real So I had to find a creative director copywriter, etcetera. And, uh, I just so happen to hit it off with this guy. Local guy. And we are personalities were awesome, like we just connected first time ever meeting him. Um, was the day before actually going to a major client, flying to a major client and pitching pitching a deal and we got to know each other, went there pitched the deal flew back. We won the deal. So my first time, my first ever pitched on the agency's side. Yes, we won this deal. We're gonna do some major work with them, right? So and the way we did, we just connected in the in the office, and we're talking to this client and just everything is going great. So about three weeks later, he invites me This guy, my career director, uh, invites me to lunch. Now, this guy had his own company. He just started his own his own shop, Really small shop. And we go to lunch, and I'm, like, excited about this thing. I don't know. We're meeting. I just, you know, friends. And I remember he he got to say, Man, I think it's time now we gotta get this thing in writing. Let's fill out a contract right now to join our businesses. And, um, as much as I love this guy, he said he already met with his lawyer. This way, we're gonna do it. He had set up all these terms and he caught me off guard by doing that. And what happened was it was it wasn't like like an aggressive, like mean, aggressive. But it was an aggressive move on me because he had never prepped me. And, you know, I mean, I'm a little bit more introverted, like I'm a bit, um, pessimistic with business. And when he did that, it caused me to kind of pull back a little bit. I remember not finding the words because he's my friend and I didn't know what to say. The words I said, Yeah, I'm not gonna talk to Melanie. I gotta talk to Melanie about it. I just want to get out of there as fast as I could and he wasn't doing anything wrong. But his disposition, his style was, Let's go do this. Let's let's get this company. We just won a major counter first pitch. This behavioral science thing is amazing. Let's consummate the deal with a contract where he was gonna take 40% of the business, the whole thing And I remember walking away feeling like, really kind of mistrust. I I don't know why I was just like this Doesn't feel right. Why was this guy so aggressive on this? Um, and because of that, I remember reflecting the same person two weeks ago when we're out in Virginia together, winning business I loved. And in this one moment I lost trust in them, not because of anything he said, but his style and the way he approached me. And then through that, I thought, I wonder what would have happened if you read the situation better. If he knew me a little bit better and understood that I need for something as major as that, you've got to kind of ease me into it. Steve, you used to be. And remember, we talked about this. You ease me into your company and if he would have gone just a slightly slower we may have a totally different company right now. And so that's what I want to get you guys to think about out there on LinkedIn land is that are in YouTube writing for everyone's watching this right is your disposition matters a lot. And you just wanna be thoughtful. I'm gonna teach you a very simple way to do it. But being thoughtful about how you interact with your clients or your hope to be soon client can matter a lot with whether they trust you or not.
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