In this weekly episode* of the Mindstate Marketing Hour, host Steve Brown of ROI Online, interviews Will Leach, author of Marketing to Mindstates, founder of Triggerpoint, and CEO of the Mindstate Group on why focusing on customers emotions and mindstates is key to successful marketing.*Originally produced as a Livestream videoMindstate Group free resources: https://www.mindstategroup.com/resourcesInterested in getting more Marketing to Mindstates content?Read Will's book: Marketing to MindstatesCheck out their website: https://www.mindstategroup.com/Follow Will on LinkedIn, Twitter, FacebookNeed real resources that will help you grow your business? Grab your FREE business growth stack resources here!https://thegoldentoilet.com/resourcesEnroll in the QuickStart Academy today to learn how to develop and implement a proven growth strategy that grows your ROI, your business, and your confidence. Learn more HERE.Thinking of starting your own podcast? Buzzsprout’s secure and reliable posting allows you to publish podcasts online. Buzzsprout also includes full iTunes support, HTML5 players, show statistics, and WordPress plugins. Get started using this link to receive a $20 Amazon gift card and to help support our show!Support the show (https://cash.app/$stevemfbrown)
Yeah. So let's think about that because I think some of the things that trip us up as marketers are focusing too much on technology, focusing too much on data and that that we're not really we're seeing that mannequin, that Dillard's mannequin instead of a human, another end of things. And so how can how can a brand become more human? Yeah, you know, it's funny. I I equated again to How how do you engage with your friend? And I wrote here? I said, When's the last time you just asked, How are you? Like not asking for a deal, not asking for a sale, not following up on a project, you know, proposal. If you're a consultant and just reached out to somebody because you care about them. And there are people that I've heard in the last couple of weeks who covid is impacted some of my clients that covid is impacted. And I wrote to emails with just that idea, like, how are you doing? That was all I asked for it. I'm not looking for anything more than that because it came to mind. Um so first off, like treat them through your best clients as how you want to be treated right. Ask how they are, not how business is going, not how my project is doing. It's just a first level of really trying to connect with that person at a human level, versus a financial level, it seems like Okay, I'm one A. I'm a member of a of a company or I'm forward facing to the clients. I have to, like, take a little risk of Is it okay to be human with whether clients is it professional? What are the what are the obstacles that an organization may have in the way that prevents them from being more human? Yeah, you know, I'll tell you why. I think that in the past, I was much more worried about that. Um, now, I've always been pretty open about talking about my family, but I certainly wouldn't tell people about how the business is going or anything else. My clients, but in the world. Now that we live in where we're starting every meeting and it's still happening to this day, we start every meeting with a How's it going? How are you doing? Like for you guys? You're watching you don't notice, Steve and I do this as well. Like we start, we get on a couple of minutes before and we were talking about ourselves, Our business. We've had some pretty profound question. I mean, conversations, Steve, Honestly, um, which makes you a trusted business ally of mine, right? So obstacles, I think, have come down a lot because we're now taking people were taking calls in our rooms like this is not my typical office. This is my home office. Like I had office space that I gave up. Um, I've been in conversations now with a senior vice president. Had a poster in the background of, um of a Henry Rollins band Black flag. And if you don't know Henry Rollins like hardcore punk, heavy metal back in like, mid eighties and it was a concert poster, I thought he went to that concert. That's a cool like the bill for him to even show that I don't think it was a mistake. I don't think it was. I mean, if if you're really thinking about it, he probably would've pulled that down and put up a I don't know, some something business or corporate, but I think people are showcasing. They have a personality outside of business. So first off, I think the the barriers are a lot lower. But I also think as as a brand I'm a branch is like you are is making it open like I have pictures of my family behind me. Why? Because I love my family. But I want you to know I have a family. I want you to know that I'm more than just this consultant to you. So you have to be open to talk about your family, your life, um, as much. Or until they feel more comfortable talking about their family and their life.
Yeah, So I read this book. It's a really good book. Patrick Hanlon is the author of This book is called Primal Branding, and it talks about the seven pieces of social code that need to exist in a brand. And so, while you're talking, I'm thinking about this right? And so when we talk about habit, one of the things that brands really well defined brands do They have certain rituals that the people that are attached to them are familiar with and enjoy. So rituals like Maybe when you go into Starbucks, you know the language. But you know the ritual as you're gonna walk in and smell the beans. There's the people on Say hi to the people sitting there on the WiFi and go and do your order. Or like if you go into Apple store, the ritual of going and touching everything that's on on their those rituals are habits that we do that make us feel safe and familiar. Yeah, I know I love it, and that's safe and familiar. That's how you feel. If you are with a friend, you know you can count on that friend for certain things. Um, and your best friend. You count on a lot of things. Why? Because you know them more than just one part of their life. You knew them? Your best friend. You know them as different parts. Uh, father son, business owner, friend. All these different roles that we talked about every so often. So I started thinking myself, If I'm a brand, then I would start. And I wanted to become a trusted business ally, which is very important, I think, because of trusted business. Ally is not the guy I go to for just my you know, my consulting a trusted business. Allies somebody go to for advice. And that could be personal advice or business advice. Like if you curate that kind of connection with with your top customers, they'll they'll never leave you. Pandemic or not, they won't leave you because they'll come to you even more often because they trust you in a way that is innately deeper than building some sort of a superficial category loyalty. You're the best tasting, you know, uh, cereal that I have. It's just it's just not there anymore. And so I started thinking myself, How is that built out for me? and my company about building attachment. I think I've been doing this, not with all my customers. Unfortunately, maybe that's the issue, but with certain customers. And I thought about one customer that I think I've built attachment to, and then I. Then I start thinking about a business coach of mine who was built attachment with me, and I was thinking about that. That was those relationships, and those are for the person who built the attachment, have been very profitable and very, very meaningful, actually.
Yeah, So when you say attachment, what does that mean? What is it like this psychological attachment? Or I'm thinking of co dependency. But what's the difference here? Yeah, hopefully that does it. But you know what? It is kind of like this. I think that attachment is a much deeper form of connection with people. So sometimes to understand attachment, let's talk about loyalty first and then tell you then you can go. How much? Why, why Attachment and building attachment of the customer is a is a more important thing to do. Some loyalty technically connects brands to people's standards, their principles, Or maybe, maybe, if you're lucky, their values. So here's what we would do in marketing research for many, many years. We would try to figure out through some sort of a survey or talking to customers like Well, what are the principles? What are your values? And so, um, or what are the standards you're looking for? And and then we do. What do you want to connect your brand to those standards? Those principles this person is he's very the value this person values honesty or this print. This person's principled in honesty. Okay, so as a brand, you would think to yourself. Great. So I need to establish myself as also being, um, focused on honesty. Therefore, I'm gonna be transparent, and I'm gonna I'm gonna talk about where my sourcing my product, whatever the problem is that word values and actually even principles as well. We know through behavioral science that our values change given context, given how we're feeling in that moment or during that day, there's a great book out there. Guys called, um the honest truth about dishonesty. And it's for Danny. Really? Remember that book 2012. And let's say if you value honesty, you're out there and you're like, That's one of my core values. You should read that book because that book will make you feel very, very You will question that value because what it does, it proves it again again, that we lie to ourselves and we lie to other people and not always a mean way. In fact, most of time we lie. It's not in a mean way at all. Um, it's for self justification, things like that. So and it shows in this book how often times we lie and we don't even know it. So you think you have values our own honesty. But the problem is that we're not always in that value. We don't Our values change based upon who we're talking to, what context were etcetera. So when you try to attach your brand to something that moves around something like a value, um, we all have values, but they just change based on how we're feeling and what's important at that moment. Then you're you're actually attaching your brand is something that's a little bit more superficial because they're trying to tap into just one element of a person. I think that's that's where attachment comes in, because attachment is a deeper form of connection because it's not going to talk about just one per one thing of value you may have, whether it's honesty or dependability or whatever. It's going to help you connect to the person as a whole, and this idea I've been toying around with is becoming your clients or your customers. Most trusted business Ally. It's this concept of how do we how do we engage with our clients with our customers to become an ally of there so they see us as allies. The only way I can think of doing that and it's been through these conversations, Steve, it's through treating people as people, not as customers as a human. I know. I know. I want you don't gag, right? Right? And so this experiment in my head I'm thinking about is if I wanted to create a trusted business ally, how would I do that? I would be their friends, just like I have friends, right? And so I think that's where this attachment idea comes from. It's creating this business ally and this ability for for your customers to, um um, you know, kind of go on, go on on your behalf and and and talk about you on your behalf without you even knowing that's a real connection. And I think that comes through brand attachment.
Sometimes what we perceive as loyalty is really just a habit. Yeah, and that, and that can be, like, disrupted very easily, very easily. It's so funny because when you look at data and these big companies have lots of data, they will see. Look, no, wait. I see that these customers are coming again and again. They must love me. No, here's what's happening. I think about loyalty. And this was taught to me by a former boss of mine, um, or this concept anyways, and that there is, like, kind of two types of loyalty. There's transactional loyalty. And then there's emotional loyalty, and you can't really tell the difference when you're just looking at data. So transactional loyalty is this. And he described it like this. So, um, I used to work at Frito Lay and we have a campus, right? So in the campus, they had a cafeteria that you go to, you know, eat. You eat your lunch. If you want to breakfast, you go there for breakfast as well. So if you looked at my data, if you something you were able to track my purchases, you would say, My gosh, she's very loyal to that cafeteria. He must really like the food there or whatever, because we have We have a restaurant not too far away. But was that loyalty or was Frankly, that's my only choice. Because I have a half hour and for the time it gets me, you know, for lunch. So by the time it gets me to leave my desk to get in my car to drive somewhere, my half hours gone so you would look at my dad and think to yourself, Oh, man, Will is really loyal to this cafe. And though I wasn't at all, I wasn't bad, but it certainly wasn't good. I think sometimes we have looked at our behavioral data and thought of our customers are loyal at the emotional level. What really what it was, was a very transactional thing. It was a habit. It was like there was downstairs and is easy. The second one would be emotional loyalty, and that's the one I think most of us strive for. We build brands that establish meaning and connection. I don't disagree. That's not important. But the problem is just like you just said, buddy, that when times in our live shift like I'm having a baby. Or like, you know, the smells are different, that the experience is looking for a very different or in times of a lot of stress. We we change and we're not. The things that connected us to a brand at one point are no longer sailing, no longer important that I think the issue with loyalties. I think loyalty is dead. I don't believe in loyalty at all anymore. Um, I believe in something called Attachment, Um, and there's a lot of behavioral science around the impact of building an attachment with a brand that goes way beyond what we consider loyalty.