In this weekly episode* of the Mindstate Marketing Hour, host Steve Brown of ROI Online, interviews Will Leach, author of Marketing to Mindstates, founder of Triggerpoint, and CEO of the Mindstate Group on why focusing on customers emotions and mindstates is key to successful marketing.*Originally produced as a livestream video Mindstate Group free resources: https://www.mindstategroup.com/resourcesInterested in getting more Marketing to Mindstates content?Read Will's book: Marketing to MindstatesCheck out their website: https://www.mindstategroup.com/Follow Will on LinkedIn, Twitter, FacebookNeed real resources that will help you grow your business? Grab your FREE business growth stack resources here!https://thegoldentoilet.com/resourcesEnroll in the QuickStart Academy today to learn how to develop and implement a proven growth strategy that grows your ROI, your business, and your confidence. Learn more HERE.Thinking of starting your own podcast? Buzzsprout’s secure and reliable posting allows you to publish podcasts online. Buzzsprout also includes full iTunes support, HTML5 players, show statistics, and WordPress plugins. Get started using this link to receive a $20 Amazon gift card and to help support our show!Support the show (https://cash.app/$stevemfbrown)
I think that that's one of the secrets to success is starting to recognize maybe patterns in disconnected domains. So true. And they give you affirmation that you're kind of on the right point when you see that at this framework or thought processes applied and then you're starting to do it. You know, big what I call enterprise accounts have really jumped on this. You have a story where you're giving a presentation and and they have jumped on this. But I think that what I'm excited about is the application for every entrepreneur, every teacher, every every person that's in charge of trying to connect and communicate the value that they provide is important. So talk about the enterprise application and then you're starting to see you started to recognize there's a real big need for this in small to medium sized businesses. Yeah, it was So I've been doing this work for very large corporations. As you said, enterprises either teaching this model are actually doing the research and the marketing consulting. Um, you've been doing for the better part of a decade. And what you find out is whether you're talking in the pharmaceutical space or you're talking to somebody, you know, a manufacturer of snacks or you're talking to a company that does pest pesticides like that health care across all these different industries. You start realizing that we're not really talking about a big corporation model. We're not even talking about an industry model. You start thinking we're talking about a human model and I actually give it. And I actually started, once you start reading this stuff more and more, you start realizing you even use this stuff at your own in your own home. Right? I help, I help the local, um, I live here in Dallas and I helped a school board election. A buddy of mine was running for the school board. It's not even a paid thing, right? I'm like, why couldn't we help him get his message clearer and more motivating to help him to help him become a part of a look, I mean, a very small local school board and it was, it was in those little moments when you're taking it yourself, when you're using it to help your friends, they think it's a human model. That's all it is. It's how I coach my own employees. I use this idea on how I even write copy for my own website. And at that point you start realizing this is actually this information has been used by governments, by political campaigns and by the largest corporations for the last five years. And it's not that it's hidden, but they have resources that most small businesses don't have and it's all available, it's all there. And so that's what I'm thinking. like why can't we get this out to uh you know, Burrito Brothers down the road? These simple tools to help build, like we talked about this a I believe the middle class of America will be built on entrepreneurs in the future. And so, and it's not fair that this stuff is being, you know, this information is up there in the clouds, in academia and it's up there in these massive corporations like amazon and coca cola, et cetera, when the same tools can be given to the local crossfit gym, to the local real estate agent, to the person who just driving, driving an agency. Um and so now is the time because it's there, it's available and more and more books and more and more people are doing this type of work every day.
So let's talk about, You know, I think the thing that I really loved about your book, the Epiphany from Me is in marketing, which all right, we want to get our messaging clear, but we also want to make sure that we're designing this marketing to speak to the persona that we're serving it. So the traditional way of designing personas has been a lot of times. It's on the age of the person or the stage of life or whatever those are. But I think the big light bulb went off for me is that we have all these states of mind we're in that changes hundreds of times during the day. And and so for me to realize that there's a commonality between all these ages, all these of whether it's male or female, or small business or big business or whatever it would be, that actually there is a state of mind that someone generally is in when they're considering a solution to a problem. Talk to us more about that. Yeah, I came to this conclusion um more than a decade ago when I was working at Frito Lay and I was working in something called shopper insights and that's just basically where I was studying shopping behavior inside of grocery stores and I used to do a lot of store walks and so if you just walk through different grocery stores, you see what competitors are doing, you see what the grocery stores, how are they trying to differentiate themselves? And often times you do it with other people. And I remember standing in front of our chip aisle and I was we were stuck next to a company called hurts and I said we both had the same price. We both had very clear packaging like their pretzels. And um and I and I and I looked at it and I thought to myself, they're both clear, we both tell the exact same thing at almost the exact really, actually at the exact same price and said, why one versus the other, why one versus the other? And I can make the claim yes, branding matters or whatever. But that was the point where I started thinking to myself, I wonder if there's something more about motivating, like if everything is equal, then what makes you choose one item versus the next item. And that was my first thinking around, we got to understand moments of a decision because, and I think you actually nailed it, steve anyone can think this way companies study you as a persona, they study you. So if you're Nike you are studying people as athletes and you probably have a segmentation out there that has everyone in America classified into some sort of a persona and into some sort of athletic bent. But I'm more than an athlete. Like I said, I'm a dad, I'm an entrepreneur. I go to church. I'm, I try to work with my community, I'm a friend, I'm all these other things. But yet companies only speak to one element of that thing and that one element though may be important. I'm more than just that element. In fact, every day I talk about in the book that you go into these different mind states because you're fluctuating back between all these different roles that you play for, you know, your community and your household. And it was this moment of clarity for me that said, we're not messaging to the moment. We tend a message to the person. And what we do is corporations and business out there is we think about the person in line of, here's my company or here's what I want to sell you as opposed to their people. And so what behavioral psychology gets into a lot more is around messaging to the moment. And so I've been trying to really focus a lot more. And yes, I'm an athlete. I'm always other things as well, but I'm also a person that is influenced in the moment. So I can study the moment or what we call mind states the moment, your mind state in that moment. I can message to you in a very unique, empowering, uh influential way. And so that's what we talk about in the book. That's what I teach in my courses and that's what you and I think we're gonna talk over the next couple of weeks about is these moments and how do you tap into these moments and message to these moments?
you know, you think about right now, you have all these businesses that let's say they were this methodical dad of, you know, business as usual, we're going to do this in the next three months, we're going to do this and then all of a sudden we've had this premature explosion of unknowns just dropped in our laps all of a sudden. We can't shake hands or we're not supposed to do business like we've always done. Never occurred to us that it would ever be this way and here we are, trying to figure out how what we should do and what with what we have to work with. And it's such a same scenario as you're talking about. What's interesting about what you just said, steve is I never even picked up on this, but we're even less human now because you're right, we can't reach out and hug our our our customers, we can't touch them, we can't see their faces in many cases. And so as bad as it was three years ago, two years ago, You can make the case. It's even dramatically worse now because we're not engaging. We don't have the 1-1 face conversation. So it's even more of a time for us to bring our humanness to marketing because I think that if you can be human and and and and and kind of b they're for your customers, you're going to be above and beyond anything else that's out there right now. You just are if you can figure that out.
Yes. So when when, so behavioral science always joke that will each blind you with science. But really what you're talking about is how to take your messaging and connect with the human deep inside of us. And I believe that's what's wrong with marketing. Marketing is broken because marketing is designed to communicate to this faceless, nameless consumer. And really when you think about the folks that need your services or appreciate you, they have names, they have families, they have dreams, they have wishes. And I love the story at the beginning of your book, you want to kind of talk to us just a little bit. I think that's a great way to tee up everything but give us a little bit how you were before that birth and how you were right after. Yeah. So I started the book off trying to kind of define a concept and here's what I think everybody can relate to this idea. So I came from a very structured home military background. I was in the military myself, so I love order, I love plans, I love processes and I've always always have. And so when my wife Melanie was pregnant, we went through it or I developed a process um, that created a system to where we're going to find the perfect day care option for my hope to be uh, you know, very healthy and loving son Nicholas. And so what I talk about is I had all these plans in place. We had actually narrowed down some of the, some of the different daycare options. Both my wife and I were both working at Pepsico at the time. So I kind of took lead on this and one night about five weeks before Nicholas would be born, he was born, he was a premature baby and I got to the hospital and we didn't expect. We thought it was just kind of one of these funny like I guess the Braxton contractions or whatever remember this Braxton something other? And so we just like she's having contractions is going to go away. Well even even our doctor thought that and boom three hours later nick is born, he's fine, he's healthy. Everything is awesome. But I wasn't prepared emotionally or kind of mentally to take on the responsibility. Um I just wasn't because I thought I had five weeks and so as the story goes I literally you know my wife was awesome she said just go home and sleep, bring back my bags, I can bring a bag in the hospital with her. It was like seven a.m. And I looked across the street and there was a daycare and I remember thinking I was so at that point not ready to be a dad but I saw this daycare and it happened to be on the list, but not at the top of the list. And I went across the street and I opened up the door and, and I looked at the front door and I didn't know what to do, but I knew I had to do something to be a dad. I had, I had to do something and I signed Nicolas up for daycare right then. And there. I put down the money. I didn't even ask any questions. And I remember thinking to myself, that's so not like me. I go through a process. I do less check. I do pros cons and I made a very important decision without talking to my wife. And it worked out great. But the story is is that as a human being, I can be very methodical and rational. But yet in that moment, the best dad I could be was to go get him daycare that he wouldn't be using for months. But it just took a need that I had and and it meant that need and I'm happy for it and I was excited about it. But that's how the story goes. I think to your point steve it's this idea of the human, if you message to me, if you understood me as will reach the professional, corporate military guy, you never would have been able to tap into that emotion that I had when I was the newborn newborn father, I guess who had to make himself do something to be his dad. That was the very first thing I did as a dad, I started cutting the umbilical cord. And so that's what I'm talking about in that book is it's these moments of humanists that we tend to forget in these big corporations that have lots of data and we study people methodically and we repeal them apart. And at the end of the day, like you said, I'm a dad, I go to church, I try to run businesses. I'm a father, I'm a husband. And that's what we need to start marketing to. That's we need the message to because we're all those things wrapped up and into a big, big ball of love, basically.