Group 4 Created with Sketch.
Play Audio
Add to Playlist
Share Report
Found on these Playlists
Add to Playlist
Full Description
Back to Top
Looking at someone who
Transcripts
Back to Top
And so when you look at someone who's an active addiction and and everyone asked this question, they say, Why would anyone in their right mind behave that way? And of course, our entire industry and it very much is an industry responds with the Onley Wrong answer, which is, well, he's obviously not in his right mind. The that's the only wrong answer. If you assume he is in his right mind, then you have to ask what could make me act like that? And then you look at the midbrain and you see it makes perfect sense when when our midbrain is impaired, it is a survival imperative to us to fix that. And so when you say, why would that guy be drinking like that when it's going to kill him in 20 years? It's because his mid brain is telling him if he doesn't drink, he's going to die in days. And so the survival imperative is to fix the dopamine tone in the mid brain reward system, even though his cortex, from thinking part of his brain has good evidence that is going to kill him in 20 years. Doesn't really matter because e o. what? E? Know that part of the beer, right when your mid brains on your the rest of your brain is off and that's not Ah, bad thing. Imagine it was ice ages. And it was the winter, and I was hungry, and you had a little food. Well, if my cortex was working and I thought g it would really be any social toe, knock Joe over and take his food, then my ancestor, my descendants would never made it right. So our genetics is not about us having a nice civilization. Our genetics is about keeping our gonads alive long enough to procreate. And that's why people who they feel like if they're like, I'm gonna get off drugs, I'm gonna die. And that's a really feeling that it would kill me. You know what I mean? Like my brains, like, if you get off this, we're gonna we're gonna die. And that's a real feeling. But it was like, you know, part of what you had we've talked about when I quoted you in articles is about how Yeah, there is a lot of science behind the 12 step community that no one really knows about. So whether you like how, when you connect with other people and you don't feel less than your dopamine rises when you how how detrimental shame is that when you are feel ashamed or when you're shamed by someone else, your dopamine tone goes down. Yeah, and all those. So it's like there's things that you that you know when you're of service your dope, I mean rise. I mean, it's not like shooting cocaine, but it's a little bit. It's impossible to feel less than when you're helping someone else. So there's a reason that, you know, A has always said that this is a way of living for rough going, because when nothing else works, helping somebody else does make you feel better. Now that works for some people. But some people are so constituted that they don't even have enough dopamine to feel the increase tone. When their receptors go up when they help somebody and don't feel so low there. So and so those were the people that we could help. I mean, you know, you've got a statistics were about 5% of people could walk into an AA meeting are still going. A year later, industry average. If you get to rehab and get through a rehab, it's 17%. Well, we're not gonna addiction as a problem with 5% or 17%. I wanted to build a treatment system so good, so fast and so inexpensive that no one would want to use any other stuff because I don't think coercion plays a role. I don't think coercion is ever gonna work. It have to build it so good that everyone wants to use it or it's not going to work. So we were on the in the process of doing that. And when we sold, we were actually about all the problem. You said about the about the serial, Um, making money from relapse. We were in talks with an insurance company, uh, to just take an annual we took, we would take. They wanted to send this patient. We would take a flat fee and they'd never get a bill for us for the rest of the year. And so if he had to come back to treatment 56 times, it was fine. And we would just take the amount of money they agreed to, and that was it. And We knew we could do that because we had all this data on people and and we weren't doing Anger Group because it was Tuesday. We looked at each person and what does he need to hear about? And he only gave them what they needed to hear and with him swing for the fence like the rest of the industry did. Hitting bunts and base way knew we could do treatment faster and less expensive. And, uh, and we were the insurance companies, you know, they having a hard time, too. And we were trying to fix both ends of the problem and then but that that all bogged down. We sold the company in orderto be bigger and Go National, and that didn't work out. Um, no one ever that mantle of but that's still available that would solve your problem of relapse is worth more than recovery. No, I'm here. I mean, I think you're right for sure, and I think you know any when you say Well, it's too expensive. I don't know that it's the issue of expensive. It's $87,000 a year to keep a kid with a drug problem at Rikers island right we don't have to have. It doesn't need to be $87,000 a year to treat that same young person. I don't think we have the political resolve to make the infrastructure changes that we need, and I don't think that we respect the individual person enough to make those changes. One of my solutions, Doctor, is let's tax alcohol appropriately so that we can fund these kinds of interventions so that we can help people get and stay in recovery. Whatever that recovery looks like is a very you know, that's a whole other, um, topic of discussion on Amy and I talked last week that Wyoming hasn't raised taxes on alcohol since 1935. That's insane. That's just plain insanity. So I don't think it's an issue of Can we do it? I think it's an issue of why are we marginalizing people who have mental health problems? You know, again, I always revert to the Jesuit teaching Cui Bono, who benefits who who's benefiting from this, like who benefits from this from this system that is actually really detrimental to the community at large into individual super suffer. So, Joe, when I say, eliminate addiction as a problem in American life, I'm not talking about drugs, so once you see addiction