well. So Hillary, you approached me about Mama Bear Apologetics a few months ago and um I was extremely excited because I love apologetics and I love the idea of getting more people involved in it, Especially women, especially women and moms. So why don't you tell everyone where you got the idea? Her mama bear a politics? Well, before we do that, let's give. I think there's a lot of women out there who don't even know what apologetics is. The the most common question I get is what are you apologizing for? Yeah, it sounds like you are a funny word. So the word apologetics is actually derived from the greek word, apology to which originally referred to just defending any position through uh, systematically applying reason, logic, solid information, pretty much anything you would see in a trial um, in our modern day trial. So the early on in the church history, Christianity was obviously under a lot of attack, as we kind of have always been. Um, so some of the early church fathers in the 2nd and 3rd centuries who were defending the faith against critics were became known as apologists. So it's actually the opposite of apologizing. Yes, exactly. Which is strange. That has a word or has a name that's so similar. Yeah, yeah. So you could, like in those early apologists more to lawyers than to professional apologizing. Yes, exactly. Um for example, there's a there's a man named j Warner Wallace who's written some books and actually I'd like to give him a shout out uh Jim has been very instrumental in Mama Bear apologetics, namely uh it was a couple weeks ago, No more than that, it was maybe like two months ago. I kind of ran this idea by him and another guy named Kevin Harris who works with William Lane Craig and they were just florida that the idea of this and I will always remember this, that jim looked at me and he said, Hillary, you have to do this now. You can't wait till you graduate. You have to do this now. I'm in the midst of a few degrees right now. So, and you called me the next day then. Right, exactly, who else here is going to be a mama bear with me. Um, so j Warner Wallace has written a book. He, he was actually a forensic detective, I think hopefully jim that's the right word for it. But he wrote a book called cold case Christianity. Uh, because he kind of specialized in his profession in the cold cases. Meeting the trails kind of ended. We're not really sure what happened. Um, and I, I don't believe he was a believer and he thought I'm going to see if Christianity checks out and I think he went to disprove it and he's actually pretty famous too, isn't he's been on a date line and their shows like that for Yeah, I'm sure he has, he's got some good work, but so eventually, I mean, essentially, excuse me, what he did with his book and said if I were going to be bringing this to trial, what evidence, what I need for this, and so that's kind of how he presents it, which is similar to how there's some other guys that did that, like lee Strobel Yeah, the struggle, he was, I believe an investigative journalist, so yes, and I believe his wife, because I may be getting this wrong, sorry doctor struggle wrong, but his wife, I believe it was, became a believer and he was like, okay, well I'm just gonna use my skills to prove this wrong. And um he went and really studied christ and the evidence for christ's existence and his death and resurrection and um he has a series of books, the case for books, I think the first one is the case for christ. Yeah, I was wondering which one the first one was, I know that the most recent one he has is the case for Grace and that's the most recent. So we've got the case for christ case for a creator, that's what they actually have a DVD case for faith and now they have a I believe he has a whole kids series, so that's right, taking it down to a child's level. Yeah, and that's really good because it kind of helps parents if we're gonna be talking through this with our kids, how is something that I can get this across to a five year old? Yeah. And what and when he does that, I've read case for christ, case for christ and what he did in that book as he went to the experts like an investigative journalist would do. And um and so you get these little snippets of his um interviewing these different experts. It's a great book. I highly recommend. It kind of takes you on the journey. Mm hmm. These stories actually are I wouldn't say they were common necessarily. But my pastor growing up actually, he was one of the ones that really impacted my faith. That he had been an atheist up into like his twenties or so. And one day he decided this this Christianity thing is ridiculous. I need to put a stop to this once and for all. And so he set out to disprove Christianity and that's that's the way he became a believer. Well not like sounds like C. S. Lewis. Yeah. very much like C. S. Lewis. So yes funny you should mention him. He's actually the other one that has I I kind of sight to people uh two main minds I guess that have impacted my faith the most from when I was young and it would be C. S. Lewis and my and my pastor. Um but I have this really great quote from him that I've always loved. It's from his book surprised by Joy which is a double Anton because Joy was his wife and she kind of he got married at a lot later a lot later in life. So he says in the trinity term of 1929 I gave in and admitted that God was God and knelt and prayed perhaps that night the most dejected and reluctant convert in all of England. The most reluctant convert. That's right, that's one of his favorite quotes and I love it because it kind of shows there there's an emotional component to faith but there's also an intellectual component to faith and there's some people who are ruled more by emotions but there's also people who are ruled more by by intellectual stuff. And so if we ignore them as a church thinking that apologetics doesn't matter. It's just for the people who want to argue we're going to miss out on great minds like C. S. Lewis who if someone hadn't presented him with a lot of the evidence um We wouldn't have had some of his work and he's one of the most influential Christian thinkers of the 20th century. Yeah. Most definitely we can't imagine Christianity today without his work and especially his Children's books. So many people all the Narnia series. Yeah. That just plays such a huge part in people's child. I would like to actually do a series going through those because there's a lot of really good theology in those books. That that's the perfect thing for if you want to start kind of teaching your kids some theology. I mean, what what better way to do it. Yeah, that's actually we, my husband and I did that last summer with our girls and he sees every night we would read and we started with the lion the witch and wardrobe because we said, well, read the book first and then we'll watch the movie. And so we read through the series and yeah, there's a lot of opportunities in there to stop and talk to the Lord. I mean, talk to the girls about the Lord Prince Caspian. There's a lot on the hideousness of God because a salon is where is he? Everyone talks about him. But where is he? And he called? As long as well. How do you say it? I asked Lance. Absolutely normal people. Okay, sorry, I don't know that up. Maybe I'm the weirdo. I know we're leaving that. So he's, you know, so lee and I are reading this and we're looking at each other because we've been talking a lot about the heaviness of God is something that was a big stumbling block for me explain like, what is the redness of God? No one season. Right. I mean, we don't see him. I mean, some people claim they do and I don't wanna downplay that. I don't know. It's not, I don't that's outside of my experience. People hear him speak and I don't wanna, you know, say they don't, but my experience is not. And I I know that if I were to see him and hear him speak, I probably have a heart attack. So yes, well, why in scripture, even the angels come in the first words, they always say, do not be afraid. So it's the fall down to worship. These are the angels. And I don't really want to see an angel. I don't think I can handle it emotionally. And if we can't handle angels, we sure can't handle seeing God. This idea that some people, and especially when you're going through times of suffering, um it's hard to see God, it's hard to see, it's hard to believe in him and trust him and because we don't physically see him, I mean jesus, he ascended into heaven after he rose and he's not here. And so that's a problem that we have to be able to address with people and even the Children. One day um I came downstairs and my daughter had drawn a picture and it was her and she had written on the thing for God and she told me that that she had left that there for him because she wanted him to come get it. And so okay, I'm thrown right into this question of the goodness of God and I, you know, and it was good that I was already struggling with it myself, but kind of good, um it was kind of, I was kind of laughing at God going okay, so we had to sit and talk about that and so Children, they think about these things and it's amazing the questions that will come out of their mouth. Um there's a there's a couple that I want to interview with the shells that I just met them recently and they are actually going through, I think William Lane Craig's defender series with, I'm trying to remember the great but it's with it's like junior high. Yeah, you can do it. And they say that some of the stuff coming out of these kids mouths, they're like, wow, I mean they're they're deep thinkers, we don't give them enough credit. We think that, you know, youth groups need to be pizza parties and stuff, but they can handle a lot more than we give them credit for. Absolutely, I agree. Okay, so Hillary, tell me how your pastor and see us affected your face. Oh, yes, so like I said, my pastor had, he kind of taught himself apologetics mainly because he was trying to prove it wrong. And so one of the things I loved about the church that I went to is almost every sermon that we had had an apologetics kind of take home message mainly because since he was having to prove these things to himself the whole time when he was going through his period um of searching, he was able to pass that on to us. And I remember, yeah you don't you don't see that very often. Um and they don't teach that in seminaries and I think that's really ashamed some of the best teachers I've ever had were ones that did not go to seminary. I know in that ironic, yeah there's something to be said for being self taught. But so the first series that he went through that I remember I was in seventh grade and he called it the liar lord lunatic series. And it's funny like we were saying how him and C. S. Lewis, that's actually um I don't know if he s lose created that. I know that that's the first place I've ever seen. It probably created so many things. You read Francis Lewis and then if you ever read G. K. Chesterton like wait a minute. That's where he got it. Anyway. No I will give credit to where it says well that does great thinkers. They just influence each other. Yeah they just influence each other. But so he had something called the trill Emma series tri lemma. We think of dilemmas where you're trying to pick between two things. The trial Emma's where you're trying to pick between three and so his was it's called liar lord lunatic. So we have jesus here on earth claiming to be God that he can forgive since all this stuff. You've got the liar where if someone says I don't believe Jesus was who he said he was, he must have been a liar. The problem with that is that they at the same time the lot also extol him for being one of the greatest teachers who ever lived. And it's like, well if if you're going to call him a great teacher, which a lot of people will, you can't say he's a liar because if you're just not a good person, if you're going around telling people that you're God, you know, you're not um he was a great teacher here, but then he went off into crazy land here when he was saying was God, but then he became normal again and not even the crazy, it's like that would be the liar. It's like he's trying to purposely deceive people with the lunatic part of the lunatic. Yeah. Is he didn't realize he wasn't god, He really thought he was. So usually when you meet people that think they're God, they're usually not very good teachers. Yeah, you don't normally go independent. So this is where the reasoning comes through. It's like if you have to look at the historical jesus, he can be a liar, he can be a lunatic or if he was who he said he was, he is God. So that would be the lord part. But I remember going through that my little seventh grade mind and thinking, wow, this makes sense. It had been something that I had been taught to believe in the past. But this was the first time that I said this faith is mine. I wish I so wish I had had that in seventh grade. I didn't and it created problems for me later on. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And the second series that he went through that I remember very vividly was the evidences for the resurrection and he.