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Satanic Panic

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The Demonic Phenomena Some popular paranormal TV shows would have you believe that demons and possession are a common occurrence, but how common are those cases? Through this selection of snippets and clips we will explore the phenomena and hear some real life stories that have been reported and learn a little more from researchers, investigators, and theologians. You will here clips from The Unseen Paranormal Podcast, Darkness Radio, Stranger Than Podcast, Occult Archives, and Once Upon A Crime. The Unseen Paranormal Podcast
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The history of Satanic Panic of the 70's through the 90's.
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we won't exactly call it a treat. No, no, but it's definitely something today. Our topic will be the satanic panic, which was a moral or religious moral panic or religious paranoia that Helding in the 60s, 70s, 80s. Moral panic is when a bunch of folks think evil is threatening them and their way of life. Religious paranoia is basically the same thing, but it gives the evil the backstory of whatever the religion thinks of as evil. So satan and Christianity. I'm sure there's other things that I don't know. There's lots of things I don't know. Yes, all the things that I don't know throughout history, there have been many of these panics which trials were definitely an example of religious paranoia, mccarthyism lines up with moral panic, drugs and violence in video games, on tv and movies. We could go on and on. We will go on and on a bit. Actually, Today we're going to be focusing on the satanic pack that occurred from the 1970s to the 1990s And then kind of lost steam after the 90s but is less satanic and more still a moral panic. That's our moral paranoia. That's going on right? I mean, even today there's, I mean, I think we discussed this in MK Ultra where you know, there's like the whole list of things that the conspiracy, there's really like to hang on to, its like the government is controlling your mind or it's aliens or reptile aliens or it's satanism just everywhere. Yeah, it's fun to see them trying to give back to the community and erecting statues and it's fun to see where satanism has come now. They're santa's little helpers in the community. Oh yeah, I will definitely be talking about the actual church of satan a little bit later on actually. It'll be not that much later on, it's coming up here actually. Really? Yeah, it was one of the catalysts. That's right, so America in the 60s and early 70s was a pretty traumatic place. President's got shot. There was cults, serial killers, celebrity deaths and a war that's been going on forever. It was also becoming more and more socially acceptable to be a religion other than christian or not religious at all. Media, there's always been quote unquote religious freedom in America, but I mean not really, the people weren't always down with it and that's really what you have to be careful of. The Satanic Church was founded in 1966 and though it doesn't focus its practices on actual worship of the christian devil, the uninformed have no reason to think otherwise with people less fearful of the wrath of God. Movies like the Exorcist in Rosemary's baby came out, the common american had this idea of what satanism looked like and it looks scary. It was believed by many that games like dungeons and dragons were actually just fronts for satanic rituals. Rock and roll music played backwards, revealed satanic messages and eighties trash talk shows, splash satanism all over daytime tv. Oh my God. Yeah the Berardo Yeah, Documentary man. All that shit dungeons and dragons. It's like that's just something that nerds playing right? That was actually why I was drawn to it because I thought yeah there was just something nerds play and then when I heard it was satanic I was like well I've got to at least check this out Because I was young and impressionable in the 80s. You are impressionable in the eighties. Probably young too. I mean he's like 1000 years old, he's not 1000 years old. My gosh, well satanism is not actually evil true story. The Church of satan is the only historical example of satanism in an uninterrupted form in the past. There may have been individuals or groups who claimed or practice some sort of satanism, but the current one is the only one to persist. It hasn't even been around that long and it's still in this short amount of time. Then the only form of satanism to actually keep going. Mhm. Those who practice this religion do not literally worship the christian idea of the devil. Satanists use satan as a symbol of humans living in the way that they wish. This is of course done in a way that flows with modern society. So no human sacrifices or anything silly like that. Just like mormons don't practice polygamy because it's against the law. Well, some don't, some don't, the most of them don't. Right. There are probably humans out there that say that they worship satan and in fact do sacrifice people. But, you know, few and far between. I feel like that's mostly just an excuse to for just the fact that there I just want to murder someone. They just want to fucking kill something or hack of animals because they're fucking sociopath. It doesn't have anything to do with with satan himself. And satan is um it's really just embracing your own desires without infringing on others. So it's just basically being selfish without fucking other people. That's fine. You do have good 10ements. Yeah, the satanism is the only religion that I'm aware of that sees women and men is equal and condemns rape, and you're absolutely not allowed to harm any child at all. And really, you're not you're not supposed to use any kind of physical violence except in defence of you or your loved ones. Well, that kind of goes against a lot of people's ideas about satanism. Yeah, it sounds pretty reasonable, Yeah. And of course there's probably just as many different ways to worship the devil is hard to worship God. So. Exactly, but this is the main group of them, is that satanism is just basically humanists. Mhm. I've always thought satanism and Christianity kind of have to go hand in hand and exist parallel because so christian concept of satan was God's right hand man. So it's like the two highest being. So they kind of they kind of have to go hand in hand. Oh, yeah. I mean, christians came up with the idea of the devil. Yeah. During this time, many people believed there were satanists everywhere. These satanists were believed to be evil. These are the guys hiding the message in heavy metal music, sacrificing humans. Animals dressing in black. God forbid they were around the corner waiting to steal your kid. Maybe they were going to slip someone. You love some drugs. Anything that was not christian was satanic within symbols, Celtic symbols, anything with stars or circles, all thought of as devils in this. That's the thing. Even even still like at work to differentiate my safety glasses, back when I had to use them from everyone else's, I would draw a tri force on it from Zelda. And one of the guys I work with asked me completely seriously if that was a satanic symbol, Wow. No, that's from a video game that's been around since the early 80s. I don't know. It looks like a satan symbol to me. Goddamn satan symbols. They're taking their jobs. So devil's work right there. Goddamn right. So this whole idea of like the satanism in people's minds was really pushed by this guy named Mike Wonky. He wrote this book and released in 1972. It's called the Satan Seller. It's really a classic story. Boy with no parents gets adopted by a group of people who call themselves satanists. They drink blood used drugs, have orgies and cast magic spells in the book. Warren, he details his ascension in the ranks to that of high priest, where he provided the rituals of demon summoning, kidnapping and rape. A tale as old as time. That sounds like a good saturday night. I don't know, they probably eight babies. I mean, really, that's just good taste. He also tells of an attempt on his life by heroin overdose and his heroism in the Vietnam War. He ends the book of the story of how he found jesus turned his life around and got married, 1974, Warranty was bigger than the Beatles, the evangelical community. He met some of the heavy hitters in the church and had been ordained twice as a deacon because sometimes once just isn't enough got to make sure that's right. It's hard to say exactly where on the religious food chain it d consists varies, but it's not at the bottom and that's for sure. By 1980 he had divorced his original wife for the woman, he started banging when he got famous named Caroline Alberti as a good deacon does as it's a good deacon does. He released his first album called Alive that year as well, no relation to the Kiss album of the same name, strangely, No, no, I believe they were probably against Kiss. This was huge. The album blew up christians fucking loved it. He and his new wife rolled around the country, raking in millions of dollars to his ministry. He started embellishing stories he told before and had published in previous books. You know, it's kind of hard to read conference. It was exposed in 1992, a year after his divorce from Alberti that his whole story was Bullshit. So he uh the the story that he wrote initially, that was meant to be a true story. He was passing that off as a true story. That was supposed to be his backstory, Absolute bullshit. All 100% of it, 100%, it's possible he was an orphan actually. Uh they didn't they didn't say that that wasn't, that was one of the things that didn't happen. Pictures surfaced of him in the 60s just looking fucking square. Not all satan sheet, like he claimed he said he was like leather jacket, long hair, banging chicks and a badass. No, just swears, Fuck the investigation turned up all manner of things most important of which conflicted with his story. According to him, the investigation ruined him. Parts of his book where he said he was doing satan stuff. They like, know you were here doing this, his college, here's the evidence. Yeah. His college friend said no, that's absolutely not how he was Exactly. It was just it was all bullshit. However, guess who didn't give a shit about his credibility? The evangelical community, the entire community, They were still just like whatever good enough. Well, jesus, I mean, look at who you're talking about. I mean, they gloss over a lot of things. That's the truth. Yeah, so like the way I'm thinking it is maybe there was satanism happening and the evangelical christian community manifested it like a fucking topa, they were so afraid of it and thought so hard on to it that they made it happen. They made the reality true. That's just sort of a bit of a background on the climate of the time. Things actually really fucked up for some of these people. On September 7, 1983, detective Jane Hogue of the LAPD, arrested 25 year old Ray Buckey on charges of child molestation. Police Chief Harry cool meyer. Which is a totally cool last night. That's definitely a television police officer. Cool Meyer. Harry cool meyer. Harry cool meyer. This whole too. That's got to be new york too. Yeah. L. A. Is good. Ellie is fine, you can be cool, you know, Chief cool In L. A. Well, Harry Kohlmeier sent a letter to 200 parents of Children who attended the preschool that Bucky worked at McMartin preschool. The letter said that they were investigating the possibility of this guy touching Children inappropriately, perhaps under the guise of taking a temperature or something like that. Oh, I read that actual letter to and the way it's worded is just fuck up as a parent to have to open that up and read. The way it was worded is insane. And for the fact that the chief of police sent this letter out before an investigation was really even conducted kind of broken. That's not the way you're supposed to do things. No, I don't think it's how you're supposed to do things at all. It definitely sets preconceived notions into parents heads. Yeah. In everyone's heads. Oh, and at the end of the letter, cool. Meyer says, oh, and keep this on the download because it's kind of sensitive information. Um As you're just sent out 200 letters to public exactly and ask your kids if they've seen bucky tying any kids up or taking them away during naptime. Wow. You may wonder how the police had learned of this guy's crying. A woman named Judy Johnson had a 2.5 year old boy who went to the preschool about 10 times After what I'm assuming was the 10th visit she called the police claiming that one of the people who worked at the Preschool, Ray Buckey had molested her son. The boy did not show any signs of sexual abuse and couldn't identify bucky from pictures. Nevertheless, he was arrested and evidence was collected. This evidence included porno mags, which was playboy. So barely born a rubber duck, a teddy bear and a graduation robe. All very suspicious items for a man in his 20s. That also sounds like a good saturday night. Yeah, So I have no Children. How a 2.5 year old, How much do they have to say about things? I mean, no, it just depends on the kid. I mean, some 2.5 year olds there say some crazy shit. And then others like, you know, don't say anything for the most part of the brain damage midgets and uh at that point still, and haven't quite got a full grasp of what's going on around them and they're asking and finding out a 2.5 year old is not going to have a firm grasp on a situation that's going on around him. Right. Right. Right. And I think, yeah, there's just so much like kind of imagination stuff still like kind of tied into whatever they're saying, like, yeah, they're just kind of like making stuff up and just pulling from all their sources in their brain and just like talking a bunch of shit. Yeah. Okay. Well johnson also claimed that bucky would sodomize her son while forcing the child's head in the toilet. And that bucky's mother took the johnson boy to a satanic ritual where a baby was beheaded. Oh yeah. And bucky would on a santa claus costume and indicate and dance around the preschool as it turns out. The prosecution found that MS johnson suffered from paranoid schizophrenia. Oh wow. Yeah, that might explain some of the things being said. Did this stop any court proceedings? I'm going to say no, it did not at all. All of the kids who went to the school ended up going into interviews with a therapist when first questioned that Children would say they had not been molested. But by the end of the 2-hour interview filled with leading questions and repetition, most of the kids ended up telling her what she appeared to want to hear as kids will do, especially it's been two fucking hours, I'm going to say whatever you want just to get the fuck out of their their young kids to know attentions. And that is so long, right. By March, not even a year since Bucky was arrested. 384 kids were said to have suffered sexual abuse. 150 of these kids had medical examinations done, that concluded 80% of them had been sexually abused dr acid Hager, carried out these exams and did not base her findings so much on physical evidence as whatever the child said. So these examinations weren't really medical examinations And yet she founded 80% of the kids have been raped somehow On March 22, Seven people were indicted on 115 counts of child sexual abuse. By May. Another 93 indictments rained down from the Da's office, D A robert, Philip bojan who was in an election year. Just and aside, that's definitely not a good time to be in the daycare industry. No, because this spread like a plague should just kept getting more and more fucked. No physical evidence of child abuse was found anywhere at the preschool, at the homes of the accused nowhere. They even dug up the grounds of the preschool with like equipment with digging like that project. They brought in archaeologists so that he could study it extensively. They were looking for a secret room where some of these crimes had allegedly taken place and we're like babies were buried or whatever and shit after they were done with their rituals. Guess what? They found? Nothing fucking nothing. There was supposed to be an extensive network of tunnels down there that led to elaborate ritual rooms and stuff. And that was per the investigators had based upon their coerced investigations and questions to the kids that come up with this whole big fanciful line of bullshit. And when the archaeologist was digging around in there uh he's like yeah none of this shit really dates back that far and some of this stuff could have been just a rat. But basically the only thing they found was like a really kind of small room where they had thrown some of the shit like construction workers have thrown their garbage while they were building the place. No secret room, no network of tunnels, no corpses of anything besides. Perhaps some rats. Did this stop anything? No, no it did not. They watched the video tapes of the kids being interviewed and they were basically being politely bullied into saying whatever the interviewer wanted them to say. They even busted out with the anatomically correct hand puppets that have since become a trope. Where on the bear did they touch you and whatnot? These kids ended up saying some pretty shocking shit. Naked cowboys and indians where the cowboys raped the indians and vice versa. They play a game called Naked Movie Star Where all the kids would sing a song while one naked kids somersaulted while being photographed. And of course the satanism always the same satan is always the same. You know, kids just love to be naked. I can see where a lot of their fantasies just involved like being naked and like because it's just a fucking hassle to like put your clothes on. I mean it's a little I mean like it was like my fucking house is like a nudist colony. I mean, they never wanted to fucking wear clothes like ever 2nd their home. Like all clothes ripped off. One boy said, the teachers took them to an animal sacrifice and enforce them to drink the blood. We still don't reach the trial. And even members of the prosecution are starting to smell bullshit in the water. I mean, I don't understand why they didn't, just from the beginning, for God's sake. I know, right? It's because it's satanism. But also, remember at this time, evangelical Christianity had grown in power and prominence. It also ties into the politics of the time too, because they had yeah, they had started to grow in power, and Reagan was actually the first president that they had thrown all of their power behind and helped get elected into office. And so they had evangelicals were unstoppable at that time. Right? And then you don't want to be the guy who's, like, not doing anything about this problem that clearly exists, I guess. Well, and satanism is the greatest evil ever. I mean, it is fucking that's the adversary of God. So we were all alive during this time, but Joanna and I were, our brains weren't enough, we weren't taking any information in. Do you remember they giant christian massive foolishness that occurred during that time. Did it affect you much? Oh, absolutely, absolutely. Because that was my prime teenage years. I you know, I grew up in the 70s as a kid, but then The 80s was my prime teenage years, and actually a lot of that, because I grew up in a military christian household, and so I attended church a lot. That's just the way it was. You know, I had no choice, I didn't have any choice. And all of that is what led me to question stuff. And then as all of this shit about satanism started to get more and more popular and stuff and then you had the rise of heavy metal and of course that offended everybody because you know, Iron Maiden said 666 is the number of the beast, you know, sacrifices going on tonight and that fed into it. So I had long hair and I loved heavy metal. So I paid attention to a lot of it because I wanted to rebel against it, you know, at that time. And so like, like I said earlier, it was actually the reason I went and checked out DND is because I had heard all of these satanic stories about rituals going on in black magic being practiced and stuff. And you know, to be fair, if you got an imagination, it's fun to get around with, you sit around with some friends in role play for an afternoon, you know? It's it's all right, but it definitely was not what it was cracked up to be. But no, but the heavy metal thing was there was a lot of crazy shit going on that came to a head later on that, you know, I'm sure you'll be touching on later. Yeah, we'll talk about the more, again, the music thing later on. I didn't really uh I didn't know about the whole day care thing going on. I knew there was something going on, but that wasn't uh you know, I didn't have kids or anything like that, so yeah, I was busy doing my teenage things in different poor choices and yeah, I made the poor choice of becoming a musician and well I still suffer from that addiction could be worse. You know I think I read an article in Newsweek about the daycare thing when I was like nine Yeah doctor's offices exactly. I think I was like at the doctor's home home, quote unquote sick from school. Exactly. I definitely remember all of the uproar over the serial killers at that time. Yeah that uproar over serial killers is like fine but I remember that you should be uproarious about that. Yeah. But I remember distinctly like linking like the zodiac killer to satanism. Right. Right. Yeah. Well because that was all over the news I would definitely say that I feel like Richard Ramirez has been touched by satan seriously? He got the long dig of satan and that really shows 100%. I mean that's one way to look at him like wow. Oh yeah, that guy man. Yeah, you're evil. Well back to case here in California kee McFarlane was the lady that did the interview of the Children and it said that she could get a six month old baby to confess. It was molested. It was like a joke around the office basically. Yeah, In December of 1985, the charges for everyone was dropped except for Ray Buckey and his mother. Peggy Buckey LA. County had racked up a bill of $4 million dollars for this case so far. My God, it had not even reached trial yet. And then they were like basically dropping all charges on everyone except for these two. Exactly you Opening statements finally started July 14, 1987. It was basically just going through all this shit we just said. But this time the jury was watching one new thing was the testimony of bucky's cell mate. George, Freeman, ironic name for a fella in the clink. Right right old George said that bucky told them that he had molested the shit out of those kids and had photos to prove it buried in South Dakota. Oh he was also fucking his sister. Oh he also shipped porn to Denmark. Freeman was a multiple felon and had admittedly committed perjury in the past so he's super incredible. I am just so I hate any case where there's like the jailhouse informant. I know right? It's like it's just like dude uh huh are you seriously going to fucking believe this guy? The fucking cell mate here? Yeah, no shit. Well especially when they found out just shortly afterwards that Mr Freeman had done this in multiple cases, ridiculous, ridiculous, he's just like what? No people just really like to talk to me, you know? They just opened up, it's weird how they do that. It's weird how he says these ships porn to Denmark because there's a difference between like the Scandinavian culture and ours and they basically have porno mags like everywhere. Like in just regular like convenience stores. Yeah, there's there's commercials on tv right out in the open condoms and shit like hey Yeah kids used condoms. The covers aren't even like covered up like they are here. I mean it's just I remember when I went there when I was 11 and I was just like whoa they're not puritan, they're not there. They're open sexually. Like that would there's so many problems if people just didn't vilify sex fair, they didn't say he was a successful porn exporter, right? Might get feeling. Is that Denmark doesn't want anything that we have, they got you know, they got better already. Yeah. Yeah, they don't have any need to receive it from. They're stupid american friends. What I'm thinking is that it was meant to be like the child porn he was sending but it didn't say that it just had porn. That was weird. The first jury, Yes. First jury Deadlocked November 2, 1989 Wow. The jury couldn't figure it out at this point. And so his second trial began by this time, all of the charges against Peggy buckey had been dropped. So now they were only targeting, they were just shooting for Ray. Okay, there was eight counts of child molestation was now going for race. So it was down significantly Down from like 160 for whatever. Yeah. The second trial also ended in a mistrial. My God, they just didn't go for a third. Well that's good because I was going to say like it's stupid that there was like jurors both times, that Billy was like, yeah, you know this is credible, right? Didn't take the obvious bullshit. Just man ridiculous. It was just so ridiculous. So I mean, I'm glad there were enough to actually cause a mistrial, but it's just like you try it again and Oh man. But just the fact that there were some on there, that panel that were just like, oh yeah, I believe it. I mean, unfortunately though he did not get found guilty, he I'm sure he had to move, I don't know if he did or not, but I'm sure he had two because the people in the area still believed he had molested Children and that's just like going to be the consensus. Yeah, they hated And I believe that these poor kids probably weren't subjected to anything sexual until the fucking interviews with the goddamn hand puppets, right? It was all the shit that put these ideas in his poor kids heads, Probably all the stuff that was fed to them is way more damaging than anything. They actually experienced date. How traumatizing that would be yet to be basically told that you were abused and plant, given this idea that you were in your head, you're basically having adults convince you that this awful thing happened to you and fairly graphically showing you on an anatomically correct doll, how it's done with your hand up the doll's ass, right? And you gotta you gotta wonder, I mean, if you remember something, even if it didn't really happen, is that still a real experience? Because you remember it if you remember you were molested, even if you weren't, did you actually get molested? Especially it's no culprit, especially at an early age when memories are first being developed. So, and it's first coming from imagination as we discussed with a 2.5 year old when you're getting a little bit older, 345 and six and memories are around the daycare range and memories are just starting to develop and become part of the base foundation of who you are. How easy is it for those memories to get fucked up and jumbled up at that age, Right. And I would say if like some of those memories now involved the idea that you were molested and abused, I think that has just as much of an effect on you, Is this as if it had actually happened? Hell yeah, I I think the same thing. This is not alone case. There were, there were many cases of these daycare bullshit daycare cases. There was a list of them. I'm going to go through one. No, there was, there was tons of them. In 2013, the Killer's Fran & Dan, Cute couple named Fran and Dan were released from prison where they had been placed in 1992 In 2017. All the charges against them were dismissed. They were awarded compensation for being imprisoned erroneously before all of this, these, who owned a daycare in Austin texas. The couple was accused by a three year old and then by two other Children of videotaped rapes, murder and ritual animal abuse who was even claimed by the Children that they had been flown to Mexico, raped by soldiers and then were returned to the daycare and picked up by their parents in the afternoon. Wow. Yeah. Like the three year old has that kind of life experience to have that kind of association to be able to recognize what's happening to them and report it, right? And then there's the Mexico, like we're in texas you can fly to, I guess. I'm thinking Washington. I'm like, that takes like five fucking hours. Yeah. I mean it awesome. That's, it's feasible. I mean, except that whole thing, You know, the thing is the feasible part is to fly there and back in a day. Nothing else is really, I'm sure like why are I would ask where you got this idea of the child? I mean, I would question how a child knew what video a three year old child knew what videotaped rape was to be able to report it. Right. Right. This immediately was a huge deal and basically everyone was suspect. Even the local cops. Whoa, everyone, they were just like, this is fucked up and everyone's and everyone's did something probably. So who investigated this? Like the FBI or what? I'm not sure. I would imagine the FBI was probably called in to investigate this. Especially because the cops are even like under scrutiny. That means yeah. One such cop ended up admitting to child abuse though he took it back the next day, wow, the colours got the fuck out of dodge. At this point. They were in texas, they didn't want to face texas law for this sort of thing. Unfortunately that makes them look very guilty. Some guy had popped up saying he had uncovered repressed memories of satanic child abuse in the past and therefore was an expert and that this situation had all the trappings of satanic abuse. Just some dude pops up like hey cops or I'm a fucking expert. Exactly. What was that Panzer guy? Right? I believe so. Yeah. Because he also worked, he's got a whole messed up history with this satanic panic stuff too, based on the book Michelle remembers, which was one of his psychiatric patients that he ended up marrying. And they went through this whole wrote this book about her being involved in occult rituals and stuff too. And right along with satan cells, uh was one of the books that helped trigger all of this stuff. Fucking ridiculous. So he got brought into this investigation because he was considered a leading authority on satanism by this time. Oh my God, how many leading authorities were there on satanism everywhere? Right. The West won the West Memphis three case. Had a guy like Dale Griffiths and again, brought in to actually testify at their trials because he was an expert on the occult and satanism. And I mean, this guy has a website that's up and running today, where he still stands by everything. Of course, yes, yes. But it's just like, oh my God, like how, like how do you just like insert yourself in a case like this and fucking people are just stupid enough to believe that you're an actual expert. Like get that is my mind. Yeah, just like, well thanks for coming out and helping us out. You know, we could use your we could use your views on this, we could use your expert opinion on what's going on here, right? Like oh that's that's lovely. Oh my God, there is a lot of human herd mentality that I question, oh yeah, on a daily basis. I mean, was this quote from a movie? Humans Humans humans, smart humans are dumb. That's a damn the element. Oh, that's what it is. Yeah, no, that's a good one. Yeah, I that's not the exact quote, but still Yeah, well, I get the gist of it. Yeah. That was 100 board the other day. That got me. It said whether you think you can or whether you think you can't, you're right. Hey can he was also all about eugenics in the Nazi party. You know, can't win them all. The killers were hot and they went to trial. It only lasted six days. The first child admitted on the stand that she had been coached to say that she had been abused and that she had not actually been, but no one cared. And the couple was sentenced to 48 years in jail. Are you fucking kidding me? Nope, nope. The nail in the coffin was the testimony of Dr Michael Mao who said he'd found tears in her Hyman consistent with sexual abuse. He says that three years later he went to a seminar where they showed a photo of a child's Hyman that looked exactly like that of the child that he had witnessed and cried rape about. And that was presented as a normal human. He admitted to this mistake in the 2013 retrial so that you didn't just not right off the bat, but he waited until the way it came back up. We don't want that. I'm being called to testify again. I guess I'll tell the truth kind of thing. Exactly. I mean the whole thing was bullshit. Anyway, there was no evidence of abuse. The expert on satanism called was dubious at best. The prosecution even withheld evidence from the defense. Oh goddamn it. And then the M. E. This guy had provided false testimony. He didn't know it, but nevertheless it was false testimony. So as mentioned, the charges against them were dismissed. But the reason for this was put down as actual innocence. Not not guilty but that they were actually innocent. Well, there's a difference between innocent and not Exactly and rarely do you have innocent in court? It's oftentimes it's almost always not guilty, right? But they were innocent and they were given $3.4 million dollars for the wrongful condition. I think they should have gotten more 21 years in prison. 21 years in prison as a fucking child. Rapist like that had to sack is not a good thing in texas. Do you think you have survived 21 years is pretty impressive, Right? Do you think $3.4 million dollars is enough to have wasted. Mm Your your life, your entire life they were in I mean they were in there Like 30s or so maybe their forties when they were arrested, they're old now and they've no doubt been abused themselves in prison, right? And their whole lives run, their family's lives ruined. Yeah. Their names destroyed. And then, I mean, and it's all because not because of some, like, I understand that sometimes mistakes happen with eyewitness testimony and forensics and all that kind of stuff, but it's like, you know, when it's something that that blatantly obvious, like the kid recants. Yeah. And then the prosecution is just playing dirty in order to get this thing one. I hate that shit. It's awful. It's absolute bullshit. Is disgusting. It is because of that power that the evangelical right held at the time, and they needed these poster boys because they're using it as religions have done for centuries and centuries. They use that fear as a way to control the people. Yeah, definitely. And all of the people as they preach about the satanism and here's these examples and they don't care about the evidence. What they cared about was having that symbol there that helped keep people on their side because that's how they keep all that money pouring in, right? Well, I always think that the two main, um, driving forces behind why people continue to get so involved in church and religion is that they use to things they use fear, which is like what we're seeing here. And they also use guilt. Fear and guilt and shame are basically, you know, the two main things that have been controlling populations for ever since. Like humans could think about controlling other people, could figure that out. Fear of evil and then shame about your own humanity and guilt about your own humanity. That's right. That's that's in the original sentiment. That's right. And you need to repent from it and you need to constantly do all these things to make sure that Yeah, interesting how one of those things is give us some money, interesting, which is why they push these cases because this gave them those examples to point to and say, see, satanism is real. Look what it's doing to your Children or Children, and I understand being concerned for your Children. I mean, a child comes to you and says something, then you're going to be concerned. However, in some of these cases, it's you going to your kid saying that this, go tell them this happened to you. One of the silver linings that came out of this though, as a side note is, all these daycare cases are why we have stronger child protection laws now to Well, that's yeah, that's definitely a good thing. We should probably protect Children. Absolutely. Well, let's move on from daycare rapes to dungeons and dragons. I mean, not that that wasn't like, but The fantasy role playing game called Dungeons and Dragons came out in the 70's and is played by Children and adults worldwide. Still today, there are hundreds, possibly thousands of role playing games, none of which we're going to get into. A role playing game is basically an analog video game with one person playing as the computer sounds pretty benign. It is pretty benign except listeners dungeons and dragons as a recruitment tool for satanism and will lead to all kinds of unsavory stuff. Satan is a tricky motherfucker, I want to kill everyone. Satan is good. Satan is a friend. Whoa, He's got to you. If you play this podcast backwards, it has satanic messages in it. He's tricky. He's trick Teacher, Teacher, teacher tricky. In 1979, a young man disappeared from his dorm room at Michigan State University leaving a suicide note. He went into the schools steam tunnels and ate a much eludes pilots in an attempt to overdose. You woke up in the morning and then went to a friend's house. Steam tunnels by the way are something that is all over the place. Apparently there are tunnels that you go under the school and work on their steam pipes. Uh huh. Apparently they're all over the place of colleges. I never knew. Yeah. Well isn't that where like you know Freddy Krueger worked cool. Maybe they know that he was a boiler room. They killed him in the boiler room but I feel like steam pipes will be connected to the boiler room. I think so. I think so yeah. He head out in the area for some time before he hopped on a city bus and made his way to new Orleans Upon arriving. He attempted suicide again this time using some kind of cyanide can caution also failed. Damn. I know this guy sucks the killing himself I know exceeds that failing. He then moved to another town Louisiana and worked as a laborer in an oil field. I like how he like doesn't managed to kill himself. And so then he's like well I'll just move again. He was like well fuck it come out, I'm going to go work in an oil field. I mean I guess that's dangerous work this whole time the cops and then A. P. I I hired by the parents are looking for this kid investigators in the media. I'll really focus on the fact that he played DND and they were just sure there was a connection. It was said that some of the kids from the school played a version of the game where they acted out the actions of the characters. It's called live action and they play these in the steam tunnels. This sounds like really dirty. You know that's actually what started the whole LAr ping to. Oh yeah what's lopping live action role playing dress up in my kid people's foam swords and shit. My housemates do that. There's a whole bunch of them that go to marry more during the summertime. Also it's actually pretty impressive to watch to the told river campground area. They got a bunch of them, they go there too. They pretty much thought he was out of touch with reality because of the game and somehow hurt himself. Never mind the suicide note I guess. Or like the ludes. Right? Maybe I think the toxicology report well at this point they don't know about the ludes because he's just gone and they but they found the suicide note. So I don't know why they aren't thinking that he just went to kill himself. And they think that some like dungeons and dragons when like went wrong and why is that to blame? I mean people are just crazy and mentally ill and suicidal like all the time without like no, no guys required the kid called the P. I. A few days after getting the job on the oil field and the P. I went to meet him. James Dallas Egbert the third told the private investigator William Dear the whole story. Yes. The kid's name was James Dallas Egbert the third. That's quite a mouthful. Egbert asked Dear to keep his story secret, which he agreed and Deer had worked it out. So the kid was going to be released to his uncle's custody. I don't know why I didn't go to his parents didn't really say but they hate my parents. That's why something This was in September of 1979. As it turns out Egbert suffered from depression, loneliness and was very very stressed and he took his life 11 months later successfully this time. Unfortunately that's sad. None of this had shit to do with the game Which was acknowledged endears 1984 book, The Dungeon Master, the dungeon master cheese. The p I wrote that book like you know tells the actual story really why he wanted to kill himself and how it had to literally nothing to do with D. And D. A made for tv movie with tom Hanks, mazes and monsters is based on a book that was based on this story. I don't really remember the movie very well but they kind of demonized the dungeons and dragons and that too didn't they? The dimly remember the movie but I remember it being just stupid. I have never heard of that movie ever. Well yeah it's an early tom Hanks and I mean I made from TV movie in the early 80s. Yeah not great. It definitely was. No Beastmaster. God right. Dude I was just at like I was telling you about you know my trip to the Vegas? Um They filmed the Beastmaster at Valley of Fire State park. Really? Yeah. That's awesome. Yeah I have a picture of it listing it in the movie in the credit in like one of the signs that stuff that's been filmed out there. That's great. Yeah but Beastmaster is one of them. So that was the shit during the summertime when you were like home and he had nothing to do and It would just pop on like that one. And uh do they always play cruel to roll? That was another one. Yeah I would watch the shit out of that. But yeah Beastmaster was fucking awesome. Yes folks you heard it finally Movies that Joanna and I have both seen and Red Sonja. Where? Yes, Arnold, yeah Conan in this movie, you're fucking Conan movie and then even to Conan, Conan Barbarians like yes that fucking snake and shit. Conan is an amazing movie. So good. They're all good. Those were the days I would still just let those movies play if they popped on. Oh I I actually watched the Beastmaster. No shit. Like a I don't know maybe last year or something. I had to watch it on Youtube but I put like Youtube on my tv. Is it awesome? Is it still awesome? It's still awesome. Wasn't there a Beastmaster two as well? Yeah, I thought so. I don't think I ever saw that man. Further adventures of Beastmaster as one would expect from the sequel. Yeah, I'll have to I'll have to look in on watching that one. Canada china recommend In 1988. Some rich kid in a couple of friends killed a man. The man was the rich kids stepfather. Eventually the three got caught, two of which served their time and one of which James Barlett up church of the third. That's right. Another third. Another mouthful was convicted of first degree murder and was originally going to die for his crimes october 1st 1992 Up churches, death sentence was changed to life in prison and he is not eligible for parole until 2022. I'm not exactly sure why His penalty was changed. North Carolina has capital punishment so it was probably some kind of legal to play on the defensive part. At some point during the investigation, police were told that the three enjoyed plane live action dungeons and dragons. Well, while drunk and high in the school steam tunnels, more fucking steam tunnels. No, I never even knew these things like existed. Neither did I. Fuck. What is it with the tunnels. I've already built dungeons for you. I guess so yeah, there is no link to them playing D and D and then killing their stepfather or killing the stepfather since it was only one kid stepfather. However, the book and television adaptations of the story lean very heavily on them playing the game. Probably because it was a popular thing and that was going to sell copies of books and get asses in seats to watch television shows. We had one local myth urban legend at that time about there was a crew that was playing around the U dub and uh a couple of kids got actually stabbed because one kid brought a real sword and got into it too much because they had all taken like LSD or something like that or mushrooms or who fucking whatever it was. Yeah, it was one of the urban legends I could not, I call it urban legend because I could not verify if it was true or not, It was just one I heard over and over. Fair enough. But at that time that's that was you know, one of ours, that was the story. Yeah, Laith Peter von Stein was the name of the stepfather that got killed. So that's a good rich guy name, anything with Vaughn in it, you know? Yeah. Einstein, it's very, very old money. A mother in Virginia lost her son to suicide, which is pretty shitty. She started a group called Bad which is also pretty shitty bothered about dungeons and dragons. That's what that's good or bad with. It was bad with two D's. Yes wow. Bad. Not quite mad, she's just bothered, bothered about dungeons and dragons. Yes. She felt this game was the reason her son killed himself. She went so far as to sue the company that was publishing the game at the time. TSR The lawsuit was thrown out in 1984 But this lady kept up with her advocacy against the game until her death in 1997. She believed that the game encouraged satanism, suicide rape and all kinds of immoral and or illegal things. She tried to sue the principle of her son's high school for wrongful death because he allowed them to play dungeons and dragons. She believed that a dND curse was placed on her son's character before he died. Which is why he killed himself. I don't really she's just hurting probably and lashing out trying to struggle with why her son committed suicide. I'm sure it's an awful terrible thing but has nothing a bit far. Well yeah I mean because it's she obsessed and had nothing else in her life to keep her from obsessing. It's awful. It's terrible. It's really sad. It is very sad. It's just people just can just not make any goddamn sense I guess. I'm not sure it's just frustrating that.