call them up. I love it. All right, well doctor crackin this topic that we're I mean like oh my God, this documentary has been exploding all over social media, right? Really been interesting. I think we should do our second episode about the reaction to see Spirit see and how people have been talking about it in the next episode. But definitely it's you know, it's like marmite, it's like people love it or hate it. Isn't that weird though? Okay, so we're going to do just a short little summary of what the documentary was for all our listeners that have not seen it. This is an a revealing, taking the the blanket off of a very serious situation political to it looks like Yeah. Um and worldwide issue. Um and we're talking about over fishing all the problems with it. Well overfishing, pollution, politics. The environmental problem is a lot all affects us. I know it's a lot in there. I win kidnapping slaves. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Well actually there's a there's a paper that we did a couple of years ago called the cracking in the aquarium about some of the big issues in marine conservation that no one is really talking about. Um So this was some of the people from Society for Conservation biology, marine section to the likes of john Stagliano, I think Brett varro wasn't in a whole bunch of other people um actually, and I don't think actually was was in that one. He's been in the several, several of these sort of controversial papers, but I mean there's certainly some stuff in there which is definitely this is Angelo Villagomez we're talking about. So there's in conspiracy, there's a couple of his sort of favorite talking points in the movie here, so it really does highlight some of the issues that I'm really big in marine conservation, but one is kind of really talking about. So you know, I hate to say it doctor cracking. We've been talking about this for a while on the marine conservation happy hour because you know, we have drinks and we always say some wild things that most people would not would be scared to say. Um and and you know when we are asking people to change their behavior, like take something out of their diet, everyone's like, I think like, oh you've got to like tippy toe around that situation, not allowed to, you're not allowed to talk about absolutely not eating it. There's there's a lot of things, you know, as they say, there's something rotten in the state of Denmark, but there are a lot of things in the marine conservation field that a lot of people know but are really problematic. But no one's kind of wanting to talk about it because it might flip over the apple cart or because some of the big organizations are somewhat invested. Let me let me go through a list. I've got written down here a list of you said that you haven't have, you know, I was like, okay, all right. I literally have like a clipboard going through here and go listening all the sort of the big issues that it highlights that really quite frankly do need highlights. Um Let's let's start, let's let's go through just name the issues and then we'll go back on each of them and if we start to, you know, make a longer discussion on it. Great. Let's just keep talking about each of them. Um So go ahead. Okay, so let's let's start up several, a small number of really big corporations like Mitsubishi actually do a huge proportion of the world's fishing and are actually responsible for a lot of the problems. And this is, this is kind of what the, the documentary focuses on. And a lot of the marine conservation community sort of got what about the little mom and pop fishery? It was clearly, they were talking like these big, massive industrial fishing and that is a major, major problem. Tai chi the dry fisheries in tai chi that have been supported by the aquarium industry because they buy a dolphin for like $100,000 that keeps officiate fishery, unprofitable fishery and going absolutely, that's still ongoing. And a lot of people aren't willing to say anything about it. The requirement, uh the captain display industry isn't willing to say anything about it because many of them got their animals from places like tai chi marine protected areas that are basically worthless. They're not really protecting because they allow everything in it. They allow fishing, they allow extraction, they allow mining, so what's a cord poops? Parks only on paper either the restrictions are so wishy washy that they're not really protecting anything or they might be great on paper, but no one's enforcing anything because they have zero enforcement lack of control of fishing on the high seas. The massive subsidies of the fishing industry, which means that basically people are quite frankly, a lot of fisheries would have collapsed a long time ago because they are economically unsustainable, but subsidies are keeping them going. Um In fact they were pointing out that places in gulf of Mexico, the subsidies, if they took out the subsidies, they will just lose. It would be a loss that there will be spending more money on fuel than they will be actually getting shrimp and so on. The huge impact that bycatch has around the world. The fact that bycatch is one of the biggest issues for citation conservation. Well, and dolphin bycatch is absolutely massive. The problems with tuna labeling, we've known for ages that a lot of the observations on tuna boats are actually worth anything because the observers are threatened their lot below decks. Um, you know, they're, they're bribes. So a lot of the tuna labelling is kind of worthless, although um at least the dolphin friendly tuna has brought the number of dolphins being killed and it was a huge, it was like hundreds of thousands of dolphins being killed every year. The labelling has reduced the bycatch by about 90% but it still does go on because it's so valuable, discarded fishing gear as one of the major sources of plastic pollution in the oceans. Absolutely. I mean, that is a that is a huge of The Hundred00s per year Wales. Yes this is 300,000 are killed every year. And technically it's like only it's only a small percent of tuna that is actually caught. Yeah. I mean I think what the bycatch so I mean they introduced this whole sort of dolphin friendly tuna thing in the Eastern Tropical Civic because it was absolutely decimating the one in dolphin population. The rules and regulations they put in there has reduced it substantially massively in fact. But it still does go on because if tuna net does kill dolphins and it's reported it basically can only go into dog and cat food that's very enter into cat food or animal feed. It can't really be sold. So there's a big pressure to get stuff labeled as dolphin friendly or dolphin safe because people won't buy it. But there's no guarantee. we cannot guarantee that it actually is dolphin safe or dolphin friendly. And that's something that came up in the Bush administration that came up. There was a court case that came up. So that's been something we've known for a while. But bycatch of wells and dolphins, absolutely massive, huge issue. Um High seas fishing, there's very little monitoring, there's very little enforcement there. The what actually is a sustainable fishery? That's a really good question because when you add in everything that's involved in fishing, can you say that any type of trawling is sustainable because it's causing a huge amount of habitat damage? Can you say that long lining is sustainable because it causes a lot of bycatch of seabirds. What actually is sustainable, really, if you want to look at something that is truly sustainable in terms of seafood. Probably talking about farmed mussels, farmed algae, maybe a couple of other fisheries really. Not many that do not have some sort of impact on the environment. And they talked about farming. Old farming pictures. Absolutely. Oh my God. When they said clay media, I was like, oh yeah. And I looked at, I looked awesome and I was like, how do you feel about eating that fish now? Yeah, I mean, but again, that's something we've known for ages. When I was in Scotland, it was a huge issue about the problems with salmon farming, the amount of disease, the amount of pollution, the number of escapes, the chemicals that they were using, The fact that they were dying the fish. I mean, that's something that we've known about for 20 something years. But again, it's what a lot of people are not talking about. I mean there, if you want to look at sustainable fish farming, things like tilapia, some of the land based fish farming. Um but if you're using a predatory fish like salmon and you're feeding it other fish they done, that's going to have a huge environmental impact shrimp farming. Oh my goodness, shrimp farming in Asia. So bad. I mean they're destroying mangroves, There's problems with slavery. Um They talked about the slavery in the fishing industry, of course, that's been something that a lot of people have known for a long time. But again, kind of has gone below the radar, the problems of environmental justice and the fishing industry, particularly in Asia, but off the coast of Africa, industrial fishing off the coast of Africa where big european boats come in and just decimate the oceans there. And so local fishermen don't have any Fish to feed. And so they're going into the jungles where they're going into the wild areas and they're catching wildlife. Again, known about that at least a scientific communities. Known about that for what maybe 20 years as being a major issue. Um So yeah, there's a lot of these, a lot of these issues, a mega three Fatty acids that oh yeah, eat fish because of mega three fatty acids. Talked about that again, you Know, what about all the pollutants? What you know, the crow luxuries that get you omega three fatty acids. Taking, taking something that's important. I mean with cruel fisheries, you're taking the food away from the Wales Antarctica. And just when climate change is happening, it's it's a big issue. But the contaminant I did my PhD on contaminants in fish. My God, so many different contaminants. And it's not just mercury, it's not just, it's also PCBs, it's dioxins, it's a whole host of contaminants. And you know, people talk about vaccinations, it's got mercury. If you've ever eaten fish, you probably had way more mercury, a single fortune fish, you know, than anything you get in a in an inoculation. Um and then finally the sort of, the whole veganism thing. Well, yeah, if we start having a more vegan diet, if we start farming bulky instead of fish to get omega three fatty acids, if we start feeding lower down in the food chain, that's like number one, in terms of reducing our impact on climate change, and the nutrients comes from is it's what they're eating, which is the plant base, and that's even with cows and chickens and everything. So go to the main source. Yeah, absolutely. It's anyone who's done ecology, you know that food pyramid, where the sort of energy gets reduced layer by layer by layer. So if you're just eating the top layers, there's that whole pyramid has to be consumed to provide their energy. Just go to the bottom leg, go to what go to like the forage fish, the trash fish that often gets thrown away. You know, the fish that get used for feed meal, she pose instead of going for the salmon or Yeah, or become vegetarian or vegan. How many times do we have to be told that one major contributor to climate change is industrial agriculture. And, you know, throughout this, it was very clear watching this, that they were referring to like that the big industrial fishing, you know, the massive super trawlers. Yeah, I mean they actually feature the off the west coast of Africa, the guys going out there in their canoes trying to catch up and point yeah, yeah, pointing out that absolutely, they're not they're not getting any fish, so it clearly wasn't going. All these artisanal fishermen there so bad. It's like nice of the fishing problems are big industrial fishing and really it's a relatively small number of corporations that own many of these fishing companies that are causing so much problems. So this was actually a lot of really, really useful, interesting stuff in there, but people just don't know about it. On the other hand, you know, the guy, he was the host, probably not the best host if Attenborough had been doing that, you know, if if we had, but they got another british man. I feel like that's what everyone wants a british man to talk to them and educate them. Have you not noticed that on a lot of documents? Clearly, you know, I'm just putting on a british accent to sound more intelligent. Everyone that's listening is like we love doctor cracking because he has that british british accent. Yeah, it means he's more intelligent than the, you know, the guy himself kind of came over is like, oh, I never knew about this, haven't you heard of google? You know, you're supposed to be an ocean enthusiast and you didn't know about tai chi I think it's good. I didn't think it was good though, because he was someone that was uneducated. He didn't know what was going on and a lot of people late to that, you know, and it doesn't, you're not getting someone that's a scientist. And I understand that would have been better to have a scientist, you know, be the one or a naturalist or whoever. Like David Attenborough, what we what is he? Is he a naturalist? I mean, what do you call him? Call him? A science educated, these educator. Okay. Yeah. Okay. But um I think that someone from the general public that really didn't know what was going on, I think that created more impact other people who are not in the science. Yeah, I mean definitely as I said, there's a lot of these things that people in the community knew there were issues. But if you looked I mean really he did point out if you look at a lot of the conservation websites, it's all about straws and turtles and it doesn't really address a lot of these major conservation issues being problems. I mean people who are working in the industry are often working on these particular issues but has he pointed out, you know, banning straws, it might make you feel good. But it's really as he said, it's like banning toothpicks to save the amazon. It's there are much bigger issues out that like the corporate industrial fishing and so forth. And we'll continue talking about this subject on our necks and so dr Crippen, go get more of that need. I'm have actually drunk it all that okay, we need a we need a new drink and we'll start on a new episode and we'll continue this company.