So after, like, 16 17, where a lot of my friends in high school about sports and other things I was into, which was cool, too, um started might be more about music. And then I started meeting people and they started throwing these parties on the woods, and I started getting little slots to play and nothing crazy but a lot of fun. Were you nervous at first time? I think so. But I was also in a pretty interesting place in my life of, like, not caring. Kind of. I think a lot of us go through that when we turn 18, we think we know a lot. We kind of just go for it. But yeah, there's definitely nervousness. I was, you know, practicing my set a lot and trying to be all ready for it, but also was poor. So I had the most danke setups you could imagine. Just these little sketchy laptops. I could barely boot, and it just barely happened back when I was that old. But I mean, there's good times. So what equipment were you working with? You have a laptop? Yeah, like it was. I've always been on PC. So It was like a PC laptop running like little DJ Softwares. I mean, now I use an Alienware 15 inch laptop able to 9.7. So 10, many beyond 10. Very soon, but able to know Alien where able to push now works good for me. I like that a lot. Um, but back then, it was like I was using this DJ software by avid and my little HP last. Did you have any hardware? Yeah, I went through different MIDI controllers had this actual dedicated DJ controller for a while, and all the knobs stopped working. I was just beat that thing to hell. And then and then I would use I would just map midi keyboards to be DJ controllers for a while. I did that for a while. Tell me about that. Describe that for somebody I would take like an M audio midi keyboard. That's really meant for playing like notes into a audio software. And I would just map the different keys like the far left key would be the play button for the left track. The far right key would be the play button for the other deck. I would just change it from being a keyboard to being a DJ controller, being a control. Use the eight knobs for the different things you would need for deejaying, filters and volumes and stuff. So I would always kind of make it work. I was really to your programming it from a young age. Yeah, but it was in the software. I had it as easy as right clicking and hitting the hitting. The thing, yeah, would map it. So I was lucky to have one that made it easy on me. I wasn't doing that deep of stuff to make that happen, but that's how I got out there and was able to play a little sets here and there. But I think it's so important to as as an artist, too. Start with what you got and figure out how to make it more in a way like you have to get out there. Some people wait to have it all the perfect equipment and the perfect opportunity. I think you do have to kind of just get out there and do your best, sometimes without settling. Yeah, there's a balance there where you want to make sure you can like I look back and I'm like, Gosh, I'm lucky at that set. Didn't train wreck or my laptop didn't die in the middle of the set or whatever. Yeah, I think there's an aspect of respect for the crowd where you show up prepared enough to, um, But there's a balance of, like, get out there, you know, don't wait too long. Well, I just feel like if you were wanted to start making music today, if you've never made music in your life, you don't need to walk into a million dollar studio to start. Actually, not these days, you know, and it would be terrifying. It would be the absolute wrong move, because there's too much going on and you really don't know even you know what the signal flow is or how to work on an instrument. And there's so much to be learned. So you just got to start small with whatever you have. I agree. I think I understand what you have in front of you before you add more is important, like you want to make music on a computer, understand computers enough to be good at making computer music not to become a genius and know how to build your own or whatever, which probably would be good for most computer musicians to know how to do. But no them enough. I mean, your job is going to depend on it if you want this to be a career or just if you want to be professional. I did do a good job. You're gonna want to first understand your computer. Like I know I've seen some guys go out and buy all the top of the line akai controller a PC. This and all these different mixers and some people. Maybe that's good. Maybe it motivates them to do more music making. But in my opinion, I'd say Learn what's in front of you Get really good on the Daw or whatever audio software using with just the mouse. Whatever you have. So you like. For me, buying gear is just to solve a workflow problem. Like I'm spending too much time drawing notes with my mouse, get a midi keyboard, maybe take a few lessons on playing keyboard because like you can have a keyboard. If you don't know how to play a keyboard, it's almost worse than just drawing in notes. I understand you have to correct all the wrong knows. Yeah, so what? It's like a wash, almost like if you depending on how you handle that, I think. But it's really there's no one way to do it. Um, that's kind of how I always did it. I had a mouse and keyboard in a computer for like, six years. That's all I had. I think for kids these days are just people getting into it, whether young or old, getting I think the most important thing is a quality speakers or headphones first and foremost, like probably headphones before anything else, because you can even get good speakers. But put them in a bad room and fool yourself. You know, getting really good headphones and getting listening to lots of music on that pair of headphones and then going and making music on them. Tell me about what good headphones are in your mind. Um, right, good is such a subjective word. Well, yeah, and you know, if you had a million dollars is different than if you had You know, when you're 15, starting out. But we're What do you like at the moment? I use audio Technica, the GTX, I think 50 they're good. I think for me it's important to not get. I would say Make sure the headphones don't have an inherent boost in any range. Some headphones have an inherent bass boost, for instance like, Yeah, okay, you can say it. Yeah, they I think they do. I've at least heard that I had some beats in the past and I sold them for something else. But to be fair, there's electronic producers that produce on beats and they're very successful. I believe it. But the trick, the trick is tuning your ear. So what's a What's a song that you kind of want to have the same sonic quality as or the same relative base level as or something? Listen to that on that pair, but get used to what that sounds like, and then you go make music on it for me. I went with I have heard their flat. I went and listen to music on a lot. In fact, my girlfriend had him for a long time, so I would listen to music on them for a while, and I just I like the response for me. I like headphones that kind of hug my ear and keep you know, if you push them against your ear, you get that good base down. I wanted headphones that just did that. Just resting there, that's what those where I feel like I got that. Because with headphones you can make the room right there on your head in the room with monitors. You have to actually get them to marry each other. Which, to be fair, I think everyone should have that eventually. If they're going to be doing electronic music, get a good room, get good monitors. Yeah, start with just headphones. Computer. Just have fun like it's really about. Have fun. Get into yourself with the music is how I would. That's what it is for me, like use the music to discover more about my like. You can uncover really bad parts of your character by making music, which is really interesting and helpful. I think good parts of your character things you like things you didn't know you like. It's weird. So you've got an introspective with your music when you're making it. I've tried to, and I've not always been steadfast in that. But that's been something that is important to me as to use it as a tool for self discovery, because you you can see it's just a reflection of where your minds at any given time to be in a you're just opening a computer and just telling it to make noises. So why did you decide to keep those noises and not those? Why did you keep those notes and others? In a weird way, it can kind of show you different trends. If you're honest throughout the process, like sometimes you'll do something and you'll tell yourself, or I'll tell myself, Oh, I just did that because I heard such and such artists do that. And that uncovers a part of myself that I need to be aware of that, like we do socially copy each other, and it's not always a bad thing, but being aware of it's good help. It can help me stay more genuine, like Okay, okay, he did that. Maybe I'll do something else, you know. And other times I'll ask myself, Why did I do that? And it will be a more genuine answer, like it made me feel this emotion that that I care about that's a different now. I might go down that trail longer. Maybe that's more meaningful. So in some ways it uncovers parts yourself, not even just the making of music just being in in the industry and seeing how you react to different influences, too. It's an interesting, interesting pursuit, and I think we all are affected emotionally by certain music. You know, depending on what that emotion is. It just like we're saying earlier cuts past your ego and it just makes you feel something. So if you reflect on that constantly, I think it's for me. It's really fun because I've gotten to learning a lot about myself and people in general psychology, almost just from making music and talking to people about it and stuff.