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What Next: The Shocking Jan. 6 Hearing Was Not a Slam Dunk

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A surprise session of the House’s Jan. 6 committee featured testimony from Cassidy Hutchinson, the former executive assistant to White House chief of staff Mark Meadows. Hutchinson was inside the White House as the Jan. 6 riot happened, and she testified that Trump knew an armed crowd was chanting “hang Mike Pence”—the thing that upset him most was not being able to join them. Hutchinson’s testimony was the bombshell the committee had been waiting for. Is it enough to actually hold Donald Trump accountable?Guest: Ben Mathis-Lilley, senior writer at Slate.If you enjoy this show, please consider signing up for Slate Plus. Slate Plus members get benefits like zero ads on any Slate podcast, bonus episodes of shows like Slow Burn and Dear Prudence—and you’ll be supporting the work we do here on What Next. Sign up now at to help support our work. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit