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Exploring Unschooling

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Explore unschooling with Pam Laricchia, unschooling mom and author. Enjoy in-depth interviews with veteran unschooling parents sharing their family’s experience, dig into a wide range of unschooling topics with experienced guests, and get answers to listener questions in the Q&A episodes. Choosing to live and learn without school isn’t as intimidating as you might imagine. Children really do love learning when it's driven by curiosity rather than curriculum, and the strong and trusting relation… Continue Reading >>
Explore unschooling with Pam Laricchia, unschooling mom and author. Enjoy in-depth interviews with veteran unschooling parents sharing their family’s experience, dig into a wide range of unschooling topics with experienced guests, and get answers to listener questions in the Q&A episodes. Choosing to live and learn without school isn’t as intimidating as you might imagine. Children really do love learning when it's driven by curiosity rather than curriculum, and the strong and trusting relationships that develop in unschooling families are priceless. << Show Less
Featured Audio
EU331: An Unschooling Journey with Jae Williams, Part 2 Jae Williams is a former teacher and new unschooling dad of two young children. I first spoke to Jae when he was about two months into his unschooling journey, in episode 290.



It&#8217;s been a year now and we had so much to catch up on! Jae and I talked about the inner work of deschooling, the joy of an unschooling, routines versus structure, and the way unschooling expands into all areas of life.



Our conversation was so rich that we ended up talking for almost two hours! And so as not to overwhelm you, I&#8217;ve broken up our discussion into two episodes, with the second half coming out next week.



I hope you enjoy learning more about Jae’s journey!



Questions for Jae



Can you give us a bit of an update about you and your family? What is everybody interested in right now?



When we spoke last July, you’d been unschooling for a couple of months. It’s been a year now, and I imagine there have been ups and downs. What have you found to be the most challenging aspect of your unschooling journey so far?



What has been your most valuable a-ha moment so far? And what sparked it?



Things mentioned in the episode



EU290: An Unschooling Journey with Jae Williams, Part 1



The Living Joyfully Network



Jae’s YouTube channel, BlackDad



Transcript



Read the transcript



Video



Watch the YouTube video



Have a question about unschooling?



Submit your question here for an upcoming Q&A episode!



The Living Joyfully Network community



The Network is a wonderful online community for parents to connect and engage in candid conversations about living and learning through the lens of unschooling. Our shared goals are to embrace lifelong learning, develop strong and connected relationships with our children, and cultivate a thriving unschooling lifestyle in our families.



This month, our theme is Remember Your Why and we’re exploring it through the lenses of connection and joy. If you’re curious to learn more, click here!



Consider becoming a podcast patron



I deeply appreciate all my patrons. Your generous support helps pay for the hosting and transcription, as well as my time spent creating new episodes each week. It’s instrumental in keeping the growing podcast archive freely available to anyone who’s curious and wants to explore the fascinating world of unschooling. If you’d like to join my community of patrons and scoop up some great rewards along the way, check out the Exploring Unschooling page on Patreon.



Connect with Pam



Website



Instagram



Facebook
Newest Audio
EU331: An Unschooling Journey with Jae Williams, Part 2 Jae Williams is a former teacher and new unschooling dad of two young children. I first spoke to Jae when he was about two months into his unschooling journey, in episode 290.



It&#8217;s been a year now and we had so much to catch up on! Jae and I talked about the inner work of deschooling, the joy of an unschooling, routines versus structure, and the way unschooling expands into all areas of life.



Our conversation was so rich that we ended up talking for almost two hours! And so as not to overwhelm you, I&#8217;ve broken up our discussion into two episodes, with the second half coming out next week.



I hope you enjoy learning more about Jae’s journey!



Questions for Jae



Can you give us a bit of an update about you and your family? What is everybody interested in right now?



When we spoke last July, you’d been unschooling for a couple of months. It’s been a year now, and I imagine there have been ups and downs. What have you found to be the most challenging aspect of your unschooling journey so far?



What has been your most valuable a-ha moment so far? And what sparked it?



Things mentioned in the episode



EU290: An Unschooling Journey with Jae Williams, Part 1



The Living Joyfully Network



Jae’s YouTube channel, BlackDad



Transcript



Read the transcript



Video



Watch the YouTube video



Have a question about unschooling?



Submit your question here for an upcoming Q&A episode!



The Living Joyfully Network community



The Network is a wonderful online community for parents to connect and engage in candid conversations about living and learning through the lens of unschooling. Our shared goals are to embrace lifelong learning, develop strong and connected relationships with our children, and cultivate a thriving unschooling lifestyle in our families.



This month, our theme is Remember Your Why and we’re exploring it through the lenses of connection and joy. If you’re curious to learn more, click here!



Consider becoming a podcast patron



I deeply appreciate all my patrons. Your generous support helps pay for the hosting and transcription, as well as my time spent creating new episodes each week. It’s instrumental in keeping the growing podcast archive freely available to anyone who’s curious and wants to explore the fascinating world of unschooling. If you’d like to join my community of patrons and scoop up some great rewards along the way, check out the Exploring Unschooling page on Patreon.



Connect with Pam



Website



Instagram



Facebook
EU330 Bonus Episode: A Peek Inside the Living Joyfully Network I’ve mentioned the Living Joyfully Network online community here and there on the podcast over the last couple of years, sometimes sharing the theme we’re exploring that month or testimonials from members.



But I feel like that doesn’t actually say much about what we get up to in this rich and vibrant community. So, for those who are even just a bit curious, I want to share a peek inside the Network!



Anna Brown, Network co-host and community advocate, and Erika Ellis, community moderator and resource-gatherer, join me up front to talk a bit about the Network: the platform, the flow, who it&#8217;s for, what makes it different, and why we love being members!



Then we share one of our weekly focus calls, where Anna Brown and I discuss an aspect of the theme of the month as it relates to our unschooling lives. For this call, the theme is Navigating Conflict and we’re diving into the idea of No Set Outcomes. I think you’ll find our conversation really interesting and helpful.



And, if it seems like a good fit for you on your unschooling journey, I hope to see you inside the Network!



Episode Transcript



Read the transcript here



Have a question about unschooling?



Submit your question here for an upcoming Q&A episode!



The Living Joyfully Network community



The Network is a wonderful online community for parents to connect and engage in candid conversations about living and learning through the lens of unschooling. Our shared goals are to embrace lifelong learning, develop strong and connected relationships with our children, and cultivate a thriving unschooling lifestyle in our families.



This month, our theme is Remember Your Why and we’re looking through the lenses of connection and joy.



If you’re curious to learn more, click here!



Consider becoming a podcast patron



I deeply appreciate all my patrons. Your generous support helps pay for the hosting and transcription, as well as my time spent creating new episodes each week. It’s instrumental in keeping the podcast archive freely available to anyone who’s curious and wants to explore the fascinating world of unschooling. If you’d like to join my community of patrons and scoop up some great rewards along the way, check out the Exploring Unschooling page on Patreon.



Connect with Pam



Website



Instagram



Facebook
EU023 Flashback: Learning to Read in Their Own Time with Anne Ohman Anne Ohman is a long-time unschooling mom of two grown children. Back in 2016, Anne and I had a lovely conversation about reading that I have referenced countless times over the years. When we spoke, she was working as a library director, giving her powerful insights and amazing stories to share about children learning to read.



Anne shares her perspective on why children at school are expected to learn to read early, why unschooling children who aren’t yet reading aren’t lacking anything, how they play with the puzzle of reading every day, and so much more. It was so valuable to dive deep into one of the most asked-about topics in the unschooling world!



Questions for Anne



Can you share with us a bit about your background and your family and how you came to unschooling?



School, and by extension society, is laser-focused on children learning to read as early as possible. As a library director and unschooling parent, I’d love to hear your perspective on how you’ve seen these reading expectations play out.



I’ve really enjoyed the stories you’ve shared on Facebook about schooled children at the library and how their outlook on reading has changed since you started there. Can you share some of those stories?



Our society is so caught up in reading by a certain age that if a child isn’t reading by then, most adults in their lives seem to focus on that missing piece. Why do you think that is?



Let’s talk about how our kids have learned without reading!



Something that has struck me over the years is how unschooling children are more apt to call themselves readers once they are comfortably reading adult-level books. Have you seen this too?



Have you had anyone judge your kids for not being able to read?



How do you feel now about Sam’s journey to reading as you look back on it today?



Links to things mentioned in the show



Childhood Redefined Unschooling Summit



Two of Anne’s TUC Talks, 2006: This is Where Unschooling Lives and 2009: What’s So Radical About Radical Unschooling? (scroll down)



Pam’s article about Lissy’s road to reading: “I Can Read, You Know!”



Pam’s blog post about learning to read: Learning to Read Without Lessons



Episode Transcript



Read the transcript here



Have a question about unschooling?



Submit your question here for an upcoming Q&A episode!



The Living Joyfully Network community



The Network is a wonderful online community for parents to connect and engage in candid conversations about living and learning through the lens of unschooling. Our shared goals are to embrace lifelong learning, develop strong and connected relationships with our children, and cultivate a thriving unschooling lifestyle in our families.



This month, our theme is Remember Your Why and we’re looking through the lenses of connection and joy.



If you’re curious to learn more, click here!



Consider becoming a podcast patron



I deeply appreciate all my patrons. Your generous support helps pay for the hosting and transcription, as well as my time spent creating new episodes each week. It’s instrumental in keeping the podcast archive freely available to anyone who’s curious and wants to explore the fascinating world of unschooling. If you’d like to join my community of patrons and scoop up some great rewards along the way, check out the Exploring Unschooling page on Patreon.



Connect with Pam



Website



Instagram



Facebook
EU154 Flashback: Unschooling Dads and Documentaries with Jeremy Stuart This week, I&#8217;m sharing a conversation I had a few years ago with unschooling dad and filmmaker Jeremy Stuart. Jeremy directed and co-produced the documentary film, Class Dismissed, which was released in 2015. Since then, it has been screened in more than 60 countries and translated into five languages. His second documentary, Self-Taught, which explores the lives of grown unschoolers, came out in 2019. Jeremy&#8217;s curiosity about life and learning have led him to make some profound observations. We talk about expectations, trust, and lifelong learning, as well as diving into his experience filming the documentaries. It was an inspiring conversation!



Questions for Jeremy



Can you share with us a bit about you and your family?



How did you discover unschooling and what did your family’s move to unschooling look like?



What has surprised you most so far about how unschooling has unfolded in your lives?



In 2015, you released the wonderful documentary film, Class Dismissed. It’s the fascinating story of a family’s choice to pull their two children from school and the journey that follows as they take their children’s education into their own hands. What inspired you to tell this story?



I got goosebumps when, nearer the end of the film, the mom shared, “I think I’m starting to kind of let go and relax a little bit. I’m amazed at how much I’m learning now. It’s not that I have more opportunities to learn now, but I’m taking more opportunities to be part of learning and to engage with life in a more rich and fulfilling way.” It’s the return of curiosity for the parent, isn’t it? It’s like a re-awakening to the joy of learning and truly embracing that learning is not just for the kids—it’s a lifelong thing. Which, almost paradoxically, helps us better understand why this lifestyle is such great way for our kids to learn. That’s such a valuable step on the journey, isn’t it?



What is your favorite part of the film?



You’ve been working on a new documentary for a couple of years now, Self-Taught. Can you share what it’s about and the inspiration behind it?



You’re in the production home stretch right now and running a Kickstarter campaign to fund the final stages. Can you share a bit of information about the campaign and where people can check it out?



As an unschooling dad, what piece of advice would you like to share with dads who are considering or just starting out on this journey?



Links to things mentioned in the show



John Holt’s book, How Children Fail



Homeschool Association of California’s homeschooling conference



Jeremy’s documentaries, Class Dismissed and Self-Taught



Episode Transcript



Read the episode transcript



Have a question about unschooling?



Submit your question here for an upcoming Q&A episode!



The Living Joyfully Network community



The Network is a wonderful online community for parents to connect and engage in candid conversations about living and learning through the lens of unschooling. Our shared goals are to embrace lifelong learning, develop strong and connected relationships with our children, and cultivate a thriving unschooling lifestyle in our families.



This month, our theme is Pursuing Interests and we’re looking through the lenses of patience and trust.



If you’re curious to learn more, click here!



Consider becoming a podcast patron



I deeply appreciate all my patrons. Your generous support helps pay for the hosting and transcription, as well as my time spent creating new episodes each week. It’s instrumental in keeping the podcast archive freely available to anyone who’s curious and wants to explore the fascinat
EU038 Flashback: Time to Think This week, I want to share one of my conference talks, Time to Think.



So many of the questions and concerns we hear from unschooling parents boil down to the fears that bubble up when we project our current situation into the future. So, it&#8217;s not surprising that the value of bringing ourselves back into the present moment comes up pretty regularly on the podcast!



In this talk, I dig into the ideas of being present in the moment, of being patient with our children, and of giving them time to process their experiences and connect the dots in the ways that make the most sense to them. I also talk about mindfulness, choice, trust, and more. It’s fascinating how time weaves its way so significantly through thinking, learning, and being—in other words, through unschooling.



I hope you find diving into these ideas helpful, wherever you are on your unschooling journey!



Links to Things Mentioned in the Show



One-Page Summary Handout



Transcript



Read the text of the talk



Have a question about unschooling?



Submit your question here for an upcoming Q&A episode!



The Living Joyfully Network community



The Network is a wonderful online community for parents to connect and engage in candid conversations about living and learning through the lens of unschooling. Our shared goals are to embrace lifelong learning, develop strong and connected relationships with our children, and cultivate a thriving unschooling lifestyle in our families.



This month, our theme is Pursuing Interests and we’re exploring it through the lenses of patience and trust. If you’re curious to learn more, click here!



Consider becoming a podcast patron



I deeply appreciate all my patrons. Your generous support helps pay for the hosting and transcription, as well as my time spent creating new episodes each week. It’s instrumental in keeping the growing podcast archive freely available to anyone who’s curious and wants to explore the fascinating world of unschooling. If you’d like to join my community of patrons and scoop up some great rewards along the way, check out the Exploring Unschooling page on Patreon.



Connect with Pam



Website



Instagram



Facebook
EU090 Flashback: Growing Up Unschooling with Phoebe Wahl This week on the podcast, I&#8217;m sharing a conversation I had with grown unschooler Phoebe Wahl a few years ago. Phoebe is an artist whose beautiful work focuses on the themes of comfort, nostalgia, and intimacy. After first grade, Phoebe left school and dove into unschooling. She graduated from Rhode Island School of Design in 2013 with a BFA in Illustration and is currently working as an artist in Washington State. We talked about her passion for drawing, the idea of “knowledge gaps,” what she found valuable in her college experience, how unschooling has influenced her art, and Phoebe&#8217;s advice for unschooling parents.



It was so nice to revisit Phoebe&#8217;s journey!



Questions for Phoebe



Can you share with us a bit about you and your family?



What did your family’s move to unschooling look like?



How did your passion for drawing develop? Can you share a bit about how that journey unfolded for you?



One of the pretty common worries when people first contemplate unschooling is that their children will have gaps in their knowledge. The question itself speaks to how they’re still using traditional curricula as a standard of what a person “should” know because we all have gaps, don’t we? Can you share your perspective on how unschooling as a lifestyle addresses that concern?



You chose to take some classes in high school and then went to college, attending the Rhode Island School of Design. What did you find most valuable about your college experience?



How do you see your unschooling childhood influencing your art?



Your work has been described as “body positive” and in an online interview you were asked how you defined “body positivity.” You answered: “I think it is holding onto the core value that my worth does not lie in my physical features. It is being gentle and patient with myself, because truly loving, sustainable relationships are a “two steps forward, one step back” process. It is HARD work maintaining an appreciative and honest relationship with yourself. Above all it’s about trusting myself. Sometimes I breach my own trust and have to rebuild. But then again, sometimes my own strength and beauty will impress me beyond what I thought possible.” I love your answer and I think the process applies well to just about every societal expectation we may find ourselves grappling with. I was hoping you could expand a bit about how the process plays out for you.



As a grown unschooler, what piece of advice would you like to share with unschooling parents who are just starting out on this journey?



Links to Things Mentioned in the Show



Phoebe has been a regular contributor to Taproot Magazine



Phoebe’s children’s books, Sonya’s Chickens, Backyard Fairies, and The Blue House



Phoebe’s website, phoebewahl.com, her Facebook page, and her Instagram



Episode Transcript



Read the transcript here



Have a question about unschooling?



Submit your question here for an upcoming Q&A episode!



The Living Joyfully Network community



The Network is a wonderful online community for parents to connect and engage in candid conversations about living and learning through the lens of unschooling. Our shared goals are to embrace lifelong learning, develop strong and connected relationships with our children, and cultivate a thriving unschooling lifestyle in our families.



This month, our theme is Pursuing Interests and we’re looking through the lenses of patience and trust.



If you’re curious to learn more, c
EU329: Unschooling Stories with Jennifer McGrail Jennifer McGrail, long-time unschooling mom of four, joins me on the podcast this week. I last spoke with Jennifer on the podcast in episode 18 and her kids have grown a lot since then! Jennifer shares a family update and we dive deep into how parenting and unschooling change as teenagers transition into young adults. Our roles and interactions change, but the connection is still strong thanks to the relationships that we focused on developing during our unschooling journeys.



It&#8217;s always amazing to see how different each unschooler&#8217;s path can be and how perfectly it suits them as an individual. It was so great to have a chance to talk more about this phase of our children&#8217;s lives and to catch up with Jennifer!



Questions for Jennifer



Can you share a bit about you and your family? What is everybody interested in right now?



As I mentioned, we last spoke on the podcast back in 2016. What has unschooling looked like for you and your family these last few years?



Let’s dive into unschoolers transitioning into adulthood. There are so many possibilities! Maybe going to college, maybe moving out, maybe full-time work, or maybe none of those things. I’d love to hear your experience and perspective!



What is your favorite thing about the flow of your unschooling days right now?



Things mentioned in the episode



EU018: Ten Questions with Jennifer McGrail



The Living Joyfully Network



Jennifer&#8217;s website



Transcript



Read the transcript



Video



Watch the YouTube video



Have a question about unschooling?



Submit your question here for an upcoming Q&A episode!



The Living Joyfully Network community



The Network is a wonderful online community for parents to connect and engage in candid conversations about living and learning through the lens of unschooling. Our shared goals are to embrace lifelong learning, develop strong and connected relationships with our children, and cultivate a thriving unschooling lifestyle in our families.



This month, our theme is Pursuing Interests and we’re exploring it through the lenses of patience and trust. If you’re curious to learn more, click here!



Consider becoming a podcast patron



I deeply appreciate all my patrons. Your generous support helps pay for the hosting and transcription, as well as my time spent creating new episodes each week. It’s instrumental in keeping the growing podcast archive freely available to anyone who’s curious and wants to explore the fascinating world of unschooling. If you’d like to join my community of patrons and scoop up some great rewards along the way, check out the Exploring Unschooling page on Patreon.



Connect with Pam



Website



Instagram



Facebook
EU007 Flashback: Diving into Parenting with Anna Brown This week, we&#8217;re going alllll the way back to episode 7 to revisit a wonderful conversation I had with Anna Brown about parenting. I had been inspired by one of Anna&#8217;s conference talks and was so excited to dive deeper into these concepts with her. We talked about uncovering underlying needs during conflict, validation and empathy, assuming positive intent, letting go of set outcomes, noticing our triggers, the 90-second rule, and finding trust in our children and in unschooling.



These are powerful tools and strategies no matter where you are on your unschooling journey and no matter the age of your kids. In fact, these ideas can help create a strong foundation for any relationship!



Questions for Anna



The first question I’d like to ask from your talk is about finding the underlying needs when a conflict arises. We’ve probably all experienced times when just asking hasn’t worked—often even adults aren’t good at verbalizing what real needs they are trying to meet by engaging in a conflict. How do you go about discovering the underlying needs at play in a conflict?



When your child’s upset about something, it’s not very hard to feel sympathetic, to acknowledge their feelings. But often we jump from there to trying to fix things, and then we wonder why they stay stuck in the upset. As part of my book research, I’ve been reading more about empathy. Empathy is about feeling with a person—acknowledging their emotion, and then connecting with the person on that level, helping them feel heard and understood where they are. It reminds me of how in unschooling circles we talk about validation, that step of acknowledging a child’s feelings as real and valid, connecting with the child where they are, and then moving forward when they are ready. How do you see the process of validation playing out?



What is the 90 second rule?



Another thing you mentioned in your talk really stood out for me because I also found it to be such a helpful way to approach things. It was to recognize that everyone is doing their best in this moment. Can you talk about that?



When you and your child are at odds, it can be tempting to try to maneuver things to get to the outcome we think is best. Even if we don’t come right out and say it, kids can often sense our agenda, can’t they? Yet that can get in the way of their learning and undermine the trust in your relationship. So how else can we approach those moments?



One of the most empowering ideas on my unschooling journey has been the realization that everything is a choice. Really, everything. Was that a big one for you as well?



An important part of deschooling is developing trust: in the process of unschooling, in our children, in ourselves. Why is that so valuable?



Sometimes we are reminded that we’re doing something very unconventional and find ourselves feeling anxious and unsure. What helps you move through those moments?



We all have hot buttons, things we react to almost unconsciously before we even realize what’s happening. Yet on our unschooling journey, as we gain more self-awareness, it’s pretty common to begin to see those automatic reactions as over-reactions to the actual situation at hand. And we don’t want to do that to our family. How can we change things up?



Links to things mentioned in the show



Anna’s website: choosingconnection.com



Transcript



Read the transcript



Have a question about unschooling?



Submit your question here for an upcoming Q&A episode!



The Living Joyfully Network community



The Network is a wonderful online community for parents to connect and engage in candid conversations about living and learning through the lens of unschooling. Our shared goals are to embrace lifelong learning, develop strong and connected relationships with our children, and cultivate a thriving unschooling lifestyle in our families.



This month, our theme is Navigating Conflict and we’re looking through the lenses of curiosity and connection. If you’re curious to learn more, click here!



Consider becoming a podcast patron



I deeply appreciate all my patrons. Your generous support helps pa
EU027 Flashback: Ten Questions with Teresa Graham Brett This week on the podcast, we&#8217;re revisiting a conversation I had with Teresa Graham Brett back in 2016. Teresa is currently the associate dean of diversity and inclusion at the University of Arizona&#8217;s College of Veterinary Medicine. She&#8217;s an unschooling mom of two and author of the book Parenting for Social Change.



Teresa’s background as a social justice educator gives her a unique perspective on parenting and unschooling. We talked about adultism, the conventional controlling parenting paradigm, screen time, and ways to move towards a more respectful, supportive parent/child relationship. Teresa shared so many stories from her unschooling journey and many profound realizations and a-ha moments. Her focus on creating social change is inspiring and just as timely and valuable today as it was when we recorded this interview. I hope you enjoy our conversation!



Ten Questions for Teresa



Can you share with us a bit about your family, and how you came to unschooling?I’d love to hear more about your unschooling kids. What are they interested in right now? How are they pursuing it? How did that interest come about?You have written on your blog about the concept of adultism. Can you explain how you define it and give us a couple of examples?One of the consequences of adultism and looking at life through an adult-centric filter is that we often see children as “adults-in-training.” You have a great section about that in your book. Can you share what you see as the implications of that perspective? And how can we move away from it?In the book, you also make a great distinction between power and control. And you emphasize that, “letting go of control doesn’t mean we abdicate our responsibility to care for the children in our lives.” How do those ideas all weave together?As people come to unschooling, they usually have a lot of questions surrounding “screen time,” or, I like your phrase, media access. I think that’s because the dominant cultural story is all about how dangerous it is: addictive, violent, mind-numbing, creativity-sucking. Can you share your story?You identify a number of tools that parents can use as they shift from controlling parenting to supportive parenting. There are three I’d love if you could touch on for us: accepting our feelings; mindfulness; and awareness. Can you describe what they are and how they can help us shift away from the impulse to control?You book is titled, Parenting for Social Change. Here’s a short quote I love from the book: “By the simple, but often challenging, act of redefining our relationships with children, we can begin the process of creating profound social change.” Can you talk about the social change aspect?What has been one of the more challenging aspects for you on your unschooling journey so far?Looking back now, what, for you, has been the most valuable outcome from choosing unschooling?



Links to things mentioned in the show



Teresa’s website: Parenting for Social Change



and Facebook page: Parenting for Social Change



Teresa on Facebook: Teresa Graham Brett



Transcript



Read the transcript



Have a question about unschooling?



Submit your question here for an upcoming Q&A episode!



The Living Joyfully Network community



The Network is a wonderful online community for parents to connect and engage in candid conversations about living and learning through the lens of unschooling. Our shared goals are to embrace lifelong learning, develop strong and connected relationships with our children, and cultivate a thriving unschooling lifestyle in our families.



This month, our theme is Navigating Conflict and we’re looking through the lenses of curiosity and connection. If you’re curious to learn more, click here!



Co
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